Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander... About To Go Pop?

[WTF]

It really does say something about the security and supposed independence of the Isle of Man when Westminster can just rustle up an Act in a few hours, that will allow Gordon & Co. to remove £550million or so from one of our banks.

Except that's not really what happened.

 

exactly, the highest paid civil servant allowed KSF IOM to transfer the 550 million to it's parent company in the UK, at which point broons goons used terrorism laws!!! ( i suppose depositors were terrified of loosing their cash?? ) to seize the money from KSF in the UK to protect UK depositors!! i don't know what the guy at the treasury was worried about over costing us 2 million more for a runway extension we don't need, when loosing us 550 million gets you a 25k pay rise cos we can't afford to loose his talent, skills and knowledge!!! like fuck we can't.

[hboy]

exactly, the highest paid civil servant allowed KSF IOM to transfer the 550 million to it's parent company in the UK, at which point broons goons used terrorism laws!!!

 

Point of fact HE IS NOT A CIVIL SERVANT. The head of the FSC is not a political position and the encumbent is not a civil servant. In fact nobody who works for the FSC is a civil servant - they are employed by the FSC the Island's financial regulator an independent statutory body - it is not even a department of government.

[WTF]

exactly, the highest paid civil servant allowed KSF IOM to transfer the 550 million to it's parent company in the UK, at which point broons goons used terrorism laws!!!

 

Point of fact HE IS NOT A CIVIL SERVANT. The head of the FSC is not a political position and the encumbent is not a civil servant. In fact nobody who works for the FSC is a civil servant - they are employed by the FSC the Island's financial regulator an independent statutory body - it is not even a department of government.

 

 

oh, so it's a private sector person we can't afford to loose then?? it gets worse.

[%age]

exactly, the highest paid civil servant allowed KSF IOM to transfer the 550 million to it's parent company in the UK, at which point broons goons used terrorism laws!!!

 

Point of fact HE IS NOT A CIVIL SERVANT. The head of the FSC is not a political position and the encumbent is not a civil servant. In fact nobody who works for the FSC is a civil servant - they are employed by the FSC the Island's financial regulator an independent statutory body - it is not even a department of government.

 

Semantics.

 

From Isle of Man Newspapers: FSC chief's 'astronomical' pay award slammed in Tynwald

 

"Figures given to the House of Keys in February showed that Mr Aspden was the highest paid government employee taking home an annual salary of £225,000".

 

The Registry (Courts etc. etc. etc.) "is not even a department of government" too, but by fuck yessir, there are some highly paid and dubious characters amongst that band, and another virtual law unto themselves. Answerable it seems to Jack Shite.

[manshimajin]

exactly, the highest paid civil servant allowed KSF IOM to transfer the 550 million to it's parent company in the UK, at which point broons goons used terrorism laws!!!

 

Point of fact HE IS NOT A CIVIL SERVANT. The head of the FSC is not a political position and the encumbent is not a civil servant. In fact nobody who works for the FSC is a civil servant - they are employed by the FSC the Island's financial regulator an independent statutory body - it is not even a department of government.

oh, so it's a private sector person we can't afford to loose then?? it gets worse.

Appointments to the Board of Commissioners are approved by Tynwald.

Wonder who pays his wages? The private sector or could it be Manx taxpayers???? He is listed as a Commissioner so presuambly his appointment is subject to political approval.

[Topaz]

Soooo...... was Donald gelling still in situ (and being paid) in his official capacity within the FSC and the IPA when he took over as Chief Minister following the resignation of Richard Corkill?

 

If so, then is that a good thing to have the Chief Minister on these boards?

[hboy]

exactly, the highest paid civil servant allowed KSF IOM to transfer the 550 million to it's parent company in the UK, at which point broons goons used terrorism laws!!!

 

Point of fact HE IS NOT A CIVIL SERVANT. The head of the FSC is not a political position and the encumbent is not a civil servant. In fact nobody who works for the FSC is a civil servant - they are employed by the FSC the Island's financial regulator an independent statutory body - it is not even a department of government.

oh, so it's a private sector person we can't afford to loose then?? it gets worse.

Wonder who pays his wages? The private sector or could it be Manx taxpayers???? He is listed as a Commissioner so presuambly his appointment is subject to political approval.

 

The argument is that his salary is paid by the banks and companies that pay licensing and registration fees.

 

If you read their annual report the FSC has always returned a "profit" in that it raises more from the company registry and from bank licensing fees that it spends running the FSC. It was running at several million pounds "surplus" last time I looked.

 

I think the taxpayer argument is pretty weak actually.

[John Wright]

I have stayed very quiet and away from this topic as I acted for some depositors, as was widely reported in the press. I no longer do

 

In any situation like this t is inevitable that the blame game should be played. depositors, innocent, have lost out. They want their money back and compensation

 

Problem is the facts take time to come out and running around trying to blame everyone and to sue everyone at an early stage takes up lots of money and lots of energy. of course that makes the depositors feel they have a crusade and are doing something

 

I am not going to try to apportion blame, I'm not sure iot is needed. The group collapsed. That took IOM with it. Due to the way UK dealt with its branch there was uncertainty about how much would be recovered from there. That is now looking more certain

 

You would expect the liquidators, reconstruction expers and government to undersetimete recovery so when a good recovery comes about they can take praise, better that than over estimating and then risk dissapointing everyone

 

here is my analysis, not to be relied on by any one of course but illustrative. All from public documenst on the Government or KSFIOM web site or the web site of Jon Smalley

 

Depositors are owed about £870 million

 

Liquidator has following assets

 

£185 million cash

£15 million shares

£35 million LOC loans to councils, some of which are claiming a set off with monies owed to them by London KSF

£415 million value of loan book, all secured and not expected to run at a loss and all repayable over 5 years

£50 milion interest on loans until repaid

 

£700 million

 

£160 million half money in London (which is not £550 million but £550 less about £230 million London had in IOM) London administrators say it will pay out at least 50p in £

 

Total £860 million, very close to 100 pence in pound, even after £20 million liquidation costs ( a guesstimate) its 95p in £

 

Assume London is being conservative as well and it pays 60p and that is even stevens and if more then the depositors also get interest.

 

Hopefully it will mean no net contribution from IOM, ie all money used will be paid back. maybe no money will have to be used as the ;iquidator may have enough to fund the scheme at all stages

[Slim]

Total £860 million, very close to 100 pence in pound, even after £20 million liquidation costs ( a guesstimate) its 95p in £

 

This is daft if true, the bank shouldn't have been put into administration at all!

[oldmanxfella]

Hopefully it will mean no net contribution from IOM, ie all money used will be paid back. maybe no money will have to be used as the ;iquidator may have enough to fund the scheme at all stages

 

I think that for a long time none of what you have posted has been disputed. The fact remains though that the way this saga has been handled has been a total PR disaster for the Island despite there being likelihood of a fair return at outset. There was a way early on of managing expectations and handling the way the IoM was percieved in the media and we failed miserably to do that in a useful or constructive way.

 

I firmly believe that a pretty positive outcome will result from all of this. The point is. After all the bad publicity who will actually care at the end of it all? We have really missed the boat on most of what has happened to do with KSF. Even Guernsey, which had no protection at all, got off lighter over Landisbanki ... it seems to be worse to have any form of scheme and build up some expectation of a fast payout than have nothing at all.

[triskelion]

Hopefully it will mean no net contribution from IOM, ie all money used will be paid back. maybe no money will have to be used as the ;iquidator may have enough to fund the scheme at all stages

 

I think that for a long time none of what you have posted has been disputed. The fact remains though that the way this saga has been handled has been a total PR disaster for the Island despite there being likelihood of a fair return at outset. There was a way early on of managing expectations and handling the way the IoM was percieved in the media and we failed miserably to do that in a useful or constructive way.

 

I firmly believe that a pretty positive outcome will result from all of this. The point is. After all the bad publicity who will actually care at the end of it all? We have really missed the boat on most of what has happened to do with KSF. Even Guernsey, which had no protection at all, got off lighter over Landisbanki ... it seems to be worse to have any form of scheme and build up some expectation of a fast payout than have nothing at all.

I'm not so sure how expectations could have been managed. I think most of the depositors expected full return by way of the Manx Government (despite no prior assurances).

 

Clearly the whole affair took the Government by surprise and it is obvious they had no contingency for it. Had they gotten around to the early payment earlier they might have knocked a bit of the wind out of depositors' sails.

[localyokel]

Clearly the whole affair took the Government by surprise and it is obvious they had no contingency for it. Had they gotten around to the early payment earlier they might have knocked a bit of the wind out of depositors' sails.

 

Of course anyone might have assumed that with the credit crunch some need for a contingency was completely obvious.

 

At least two UK banks had gone down by this stage don't forget!

[manshimajin]

here is my analysis, not to be relied on by any one of course but illustrative. All from public documenst on the Government or KSFIOM web site or the web site of Jon Smalley

 

Depositors are owed about £870 million

 

Liquidator has following assets

 

£185 million cash

£15 million shares

£35 million LOC loans to councils, some of which are claiming a set off with monies owed to them by London KSF

£415 million value of loan book, all secured and not expected to run at a loss and all repayable over 5 years

£50 milion interest on loans until repaid

 

£700 million

 

£160 million half money in London (which is not £550 million but £550 less about £230 million London had in IOM) London administrators say it will pay out at least 50p in £

 

Total £860 million, very close to 100 pence in pound, even after £20 million liquidation costs ( a guesstimate) its 95p in £

 

Assume London is being conservative as well and it pays 60p and that is even stevens and if more then the depositors also get interest.

John thanks for this assessment of the assets.

 

Pardon my lack of professional knowledge on these matters but based on this what strikes me in this situation is:

1. If KSF had not gone into receivership, not all depositors would have wanted their money out on the same day.
   
2. KSF depositors would normally have withdrawn funds over an extended period of time - as with all operational banks.
   
3. Because of this withdrawal pattern, banks do not keep all deposits in liquid form but maintain a degree of liquidity and invest the rest in various ways to generate interest income for depositors and to earn their own profit margins. This is the core banking practice.
   
4. If the KSF administrator has control over the assets you mention would it not make good sense to place these in a 'ring-fenced' fund within one of the major banks and ask them to administer them, using normal banking practice, to provide interest payments and to pay out depositors as and when over time they want access to their cash?
   
5. This would return the KSF depositors back into a normal banking operation and end the drama.
   
6. If a bank fails, as KSF did, then naturally depositors want as much as possible of their funds back. But if their funds can be placed in a secure and safe institution they would not need to have a 'run on the bank'. They could revert to what they were doing - investing over the longer term.
   

In my simple mind much of the present problem seems to be generated by the need to have all the money NOW. No scheme seems to have been put forward that says "the assets are going to be put into a safe institution that will once again pay you interest and you can withdraw funds as and when you need them." Also, for example, if the 'ring fenced' ex-KSF assets were put in say HSBC or Standard Chartered which appear to be better capitalised than some of the UK banks, if a lot of ex-KSF depositors wanted to withdraw funds quickly, these banks would have sufficient liquidity to handle the situation.

 

I would also think that many KSF depositors will have by now learned that the highest interest rate is just that because of the higher risk! They may be happy for more 'pedestrian' returns that are secure.

[Tourettes]

Iceland to charge ex Kaupthing bank chief with fraud.

 

http://www.euronews.com/2013/03/26/iceland-to-charge-ex-kaupthing-bank-chief-with-fraud/

[Lxxx]

Iceland to charge ex Kaupthing bank chief with fraud.

 

http://www.euronews.com/2013/03/26/iceland-to-charge-ex-kaupthing-bank-chief-with-fraud/

 

Iceland, the only country with the cojones to stand up to the bankers and now their economy is recovering. Although once the NATO boys have a spare half hour I'm sure we'll find out Iceland is harbouring tewwowists and Reykjavik will quickly resemble Tripoli.