Hillsborough Remembered

[Jimcalagon]

accepting this, the police knew what to do and how to deal with it properly/safely??

 

The officer in charge of the operation on that day had never been in charge of a large crowd control operation before and had no real experience in that area.

[WTF]

accepting this, the police knew what to do and how to deal with it properly/safely??

 

The officer in charge of the operation on that day had never been in charge of a large crowd control operation before and had no real experience in that area.

 

 

fair point, but it is not fair to blame the crew for the captains poor judgement, and it isn't right he could jump ( pension intact ) before he had to answer to anything.

[Jimcalagon]

fair point, but it is not fair to blame the crew for the captains poor judgement,

 

Or the passengers

[WTF]

The fact is that you have made up your mind that it is the fault of "pissed scouse wankers", and it simply doesn't matter to you that the report concluded otherwise. You WANT, and possibly NEED it to be the fault of pissed scouse wankers for some reason.

 

And that is what makes you a cunt. Can you tell me a story about someone close to you dying, please? I want to laugh about it, you see, and tell you how it was all their fault

 

 

you just can't get it ( probably don't want to? ), i'm not saying it was entirely the crowds fault alone, i'm saying they are 'partly' to blame, along with the police hierachy on the day. i'll say again, the crowd ( the PSW part ) contributed to the tragedy, there is no getting away from that. i'm not saying 90-10 the polices fault or 90-10 the crowds fault. just that the crowd does have some blame/resposibillity for it. it's a very blinkered view ( blindfold really ) that they didn't.

[WTF]

fair point, but it is not fair to blame the crew for the captains poor judgement,

 

Or the passengers

indeed, except the one that puctured the liferaft??

[Lonan3]

Why it won't just go away.

 

For 20 years there have been allegations that police at the Hillsborough disaster changed their statements to disguise the force's failure. They have always been denied.

Now, for the first time, one of the officers has confessed that she was made to alter her account of what happened that day.

Debra Martin had described how a 15-yearold boy died in her arms. That was true. But the time of his death was 3.55pm - 40 minutes after the "official" cut-off when the last victim was supposed to have died.

It was important for police chiefs to fix the earlier time because they had denied access to the stadium to 44 ambulances queuing outside.

Debra Martin's admission not only supports their belief, it reveals how she - and other officers - were continually bullied and threatened until they changed their statements.

Debra Martin is one of at least 12 officers who were made to change their statements.

The result is that grieving parents and other relatives not only had to suffer the loss of their loved ones, but had the full story of how they died kept from them to protect incompetent police chiefs

 

SOURCE

[SScott]

"it was the Liverpool fans outside of the ground acting like animals."

 

I agree

[Nosferatu]

"it was the Liverpool fans outside of the ground acting like animals."

 

I agree

I would pay good money to see you say that in a pub full of Scousers . Do you even know what you are talking about or just trying to get a cheap laugh /bite by hi-jacking an emotive thread . If the latter then you are an even dumber pig ignorant cunt than I already had you down as.

My apologies to everyone else involved in the discussion for rising to Sscott's post.

[SScott]

"it was the Liverpool fans outside of the ground acting like animals."

 

I agree

I would pay good money to see you say that in a pub full of Scousers . Do you even know what you are talking about or just trying to get a cheap laugh /bite by hi-jacking an emotive thread . If the latter then you are an even dumber pig ignorant cunt than I already had you down as.

My apologies to everyone else involved in the discussion for rising to Sscott's post.

Yup

 

a cheap laugh /bite by hi-jacking an emotive thread

 

[Lonan3]

There was a thick accountant

Down Ballasalla way

Who tried to tell the Forum

“I’m from the USA.”

 

He said “I’m so successful!”

But as soon as he tried wit,

Revealed that, just like Salford,

He was full of boring shit!

[Jimcalagon]

Source

 

Details of Police statements removed and altered changed by superior officers made public

 

WIPED . . . . . . A statement made by PS Kennedy, who had stated: “Several senior officers were, I'm afraid, lacking in directing the officers there, towards useful purposes.

 

'My thought on the incident, professionally, are that many officers and above, had no idea of what to do.

 

'Many were unable to work without being told exactly where to go and what to do, without personal radios, directions were limited.

 

'Many constables were too concerned about finding their serials {squads}, than trying to help the situation.

 

'...I had no fears other than the officers feeling let down by higher ranking officers.'

 

WIPED . . . PC Bennett, who had said: “Although it was basically poorly organised, I felt that officers should have been at the turnstile entrance ways in more strength and caused the crowd to form queues prior to getting near the turnstiles.

 

'No senior officers at this stage appeared to be in command of the situation and what was happening was several officers of Inspector level pushed amongst the crowd shouting at officers to move the supporters first this way then that way.

 

'I feel that no one knew what was actually taking place.'

 

WIPED . . . PC Cammock, who had said: 'For a start, the microphone system was next to useless and I and others around me could hear very little of what was actually said.

 

“'We kept asking senior officers to speak up, but still only heard two words in four.”

 

WIPED . . . PC Ramsden, who had said: “..only one thing has concerned me, was that the pure location of the control box at Hillsborough overlooks the area where the tragedy took place.

 

“Were not officers appreciative of the developing situation? What was the feedback from the officers working the perimeter of the pitch.

 

“Couldn't they see the developing crush on the terraces?”

 

WIPED . . . PC Green, who had said: “I felt useless and guilty and in anger asked, ‘where the hell were our senior officers?'

 

“Many officers sat there in bewilderment and still no senior officer was present. It was uplifting to see Chief Supt Mole walk across the field of play.”

 

WIPED . . . PC Kent, who had said: “...I was surprised that the Liverpool supporters coming to the ground along Halifax Road were allowed to go where they wanted and did not have a police escort from the coaches parked on Halifax Road.”

 

WIPED . . . PC Winter, who had said: “My feelings at this point were of total confusion, there were no persons to give any guidance at the initial attendance at the scene, everything was done as a gut reaction. “My only observations of the policing of the event were, if we had so many police officers on duty, spread out all over the place, why couldn't more police have been deviated to the Leppings Lane area, to approach from behind and break up the large crowd?”

 

WIPED . . . PC Hooson, who had said: “I made a request to one Inspector who was standing on the grass to get a serial {squad} through the back to pull the people out.

 

“Whether he did or not I don't know, he seemed a little nonplussed and walked away.”

 

WIPED . . . PC Twigg, who had said: “I have worked many matches in Hillsborough including last year's semi final {in 1988} which I feel was policed a lot better because there were more officers on duty.”

 

WIPED . . . PC Linday, who had said: “Having surveyed the situation, I couldn't understand why there were only two horses near to the turnstiles when normally there would be four to six on any other fixture.

 

“The situation appeared to be lost before I got there.”

 

WIPED . . . PC Groome, who had said: “Too many non-operational supervisory officers were in charge of important and critical parts of the football ground.

 

“The deployment of officers around the crucial time needs to come under scrutiny, too many were sat in the gymnasium, while others were rushed off their feet.”

 

Chief Inspector Purdy had some telling criticisms, which were all deleted from his original statement.

 

He had said: “Why, during the period 2-2.45pm, when the Leppings Lane end and the West Stand were not very full, except for the centre pen, was the kick off not put back and the delay broadcast to the supporters outside?

 

“You cannot pass 30-40,000 through the turnstiles at the Leppings Lane end in one hour. At 2pm, I would estimate that only 12,000 were in the ground.

 

“The policing at Hillsborough has become complacent over the last 2-3 years, because there hadn't been any significant or major outbreaks of trouble, supervisory officers assumed that it wouldn't happen.

 

“Various officers working the track and in the ground, had warned that things were starting to go wrong over this period, yet no notice was taken.

 

“Manpower levels had been steadily cut over this season to the detriment of policing the ground efficiently.

 

“The decision to replace Chief Superintendent Mole before the semi-final needs to come under some scrutiny.

 

“The man had many years experience of policing big matches at Hillsborough.”

 

The account given by PC Lang, appeared crucial, but that too was deleted by his South Yorkshire Police superiors.

 

The constable had spoken at length of his experience when he was on duty at Hillsborough in 1988, for Liverpool's semi-final against Nottingham Forest a year earlier.

 

The officer described how he had personally received the order to close the gates at the top of the tunnel leading to the central pens and that he remained at those gates to prevent entry into the pens and directed fans to the wing pens.

 

But a large section of that account, which would have demonstrated how the 1989 operation should have worked, but failed to do so, was removed.

 

Other statements were subtly altered in the dossier, including a declaration from PC Rich that was changed from “we had lost control of the ticket situation”, to “the ticket control had got out of hand”.

 

PC Brookes, who had noted the central pens were “too” full at 2.50pm, saw the word “too” removed.

 

And a statement from Inspector Humphries, who had initially reported having 22 constables in his squad, was changed to record he had “thirty”.

 

EDIT for spelling