When Skies Are Grey Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Another one of those "where were you when" moments has its 20 year anniversary tomorrow. There are a few programmes on the TV schedules marking the day but the History Channel documentary (Sky Channel 529 at 8pm) and the Jimmy McGovern drama "Hillsborough" (ITV3 at 9pm) stand out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Football Focus - 20th anniversary of Hillsborough disaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 It was a cluster fuck of epic proportions on the day...and a monumental cover up since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Fans remember Hillsborough dead http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7999279.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Guardian - how Police statements were altered to show them in a good light at the expense of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I caught glimpses of the broadcast and was nauseated by the appalling mawkishness of it. By God Boris Johnson had the Liverpool people bang to rights when as editor he approved an article in The Spectator described them after the death of Bigley, a guy who went to where the big bucks were being paid because of the danger and was consequently a casualty of the danger, as wallowing in a ‘vicarious victimhood’ My experience of the deeply unattractive people of Liverpool and surrounding districts is one of a combination of disappointment and disgust with very few exceptions. The article then went on to examine the events at Hillsborough where the absolute rejection of responsibility for the consequences of the actions of a group of ‘deeply unattractive psyche"; and that they refused to accept responsibility for "drunken fans at the back of the crowd who mindlessly tried to fight their way into the ground’. Amazingly a case of ‘It’s YOUR fault for not stopping us from doing what we did’. I’ve just dug out the article and note that it ends with this ‘In our maturity as a civilisation, we should accept that we can cut out the cancer of ignorant sentimentality without diminishing, as in this case, our utter disgust at a foul and barbaric act of murder’ How right the article is. The fault was not with the police, it was entirely with the yobs who caused the death of those who forced their way into where they should not have gone. The blood of the people who were killed at Hillsborough is absolutely on the hands of the ‘Liverpudlians’, those not there should recognise it and stop trying to play the long established game of victim so common in Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Are you ok Rog? Does it tire you out finding the most creatively hate-filled response to every event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Are you ok Rog? Does it tire you out finding the most creatively hate-filled response to every event? Yes, I am OK, but I do find the tendency to be constantly looking for blame beyond where it rightly lies tedious. The root cause of the Hillsborough event was the atrocious behaviour of the Liverpool football mob. The dreadful manner in which the Hillsborough event is being portrayed as if it was a group of people killed in some heroic action and worse the manner in which the mob at the commemoration heckled the government minister during his speech (why he had to be the goodness knows) was disgusting. It devalues the commemoration and recognition given and due to those who have been killed in genuine heroic actions or who sacrificed themselves for others. To then go on to continue to attempt to place the blame on the police, a group who were only there because of the dreadful mob behaviour of football and especially Liverpool louts, when the root cause WAS the Liverpool louts is simply perverse. It is sad that nearly 100 people died at Hillsborough, but it is even more sad that the REAL culprits, the Liverpool football hooligans who stampeded into the football ground, are those who should be blamed. Thinking about it perhaps it’s just another example of the cowardice nature of hooligan individual and mobs. Once they themselves get hurt they start to whine that they are being put on and the victims. Typical of the Liverpool psyche. ‘Look at us, how poor we are, how few jobs’, when all along it was the actions of the Liverpool people themselves that drove jobs out from the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxtrotlima Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 ........... It is sad that nearly 100 people died at Hillsborough, but it is even more sad that the REAL culprits, the Liverpool football hooligans who stampeded into the football ground, are those who should be blamed. .......... Do you honestly believe that? Do you get your news from The Sun?? The Police were herding people into Hillsborough Stadium, to get them off the street and into the game. The people entering the stadium had no idea what was going on at the front, and due to lack of staffing, fans arrived in already full pens. And thank you for your crass generalization of Liverpudlians. Yours sincerely, An unemployed Liverpudlian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 ........... It is sad that nearly 100 people died at Hillsborough, but it is even more sad that the REAL culprits, the Liverpool football hooligans who stampeded into the football ground, are those who should be blamed. .......... Do you honestly believe that? Do you get your news from The Sun?? The Police were herding people into Hillsborough Stadium, to get them off the street and into the game. The people entering the stadium had no idea what was going on at the front, and due to lack of staffing, fans arrived in already full pens. And thank you for your crass generalization of Liverpudlians. Yours sincerely, An unemployed Liverpudlian. I GET THAT from someone who was there at the time. If the Liverpool louts had not pushed like animals into the ground then the disaster that took place would not have happened. If there is any blame attributable to Plod it’s failing to remember just what they were dealing with when dealing with a collection of Liverpool football ‘fans’. As for ‘an unemployed Liverpudlian’, apart from that being amongst the archetypal of examples of tautology if the behaviour of the working class (working? That’s pushing the use of the word ‘work’) of Liverpool had not been so disgusting in the past Liverpool would not be the employment desert that it was and still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I GET THAT from someone who was there at the time. I get that from the Taylor report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I hope that full disclosure is forthcoming for the families dreadfully bereaved, but if full disclosure is forthcoming I hope it is what they want to hear ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 My understanding is that the crowd behaved little differently than any other football crowd. The fact is the measures put in to direct and control the flow of that crowd were absolutely lamentable and created the problem. If you direct 3000 odd people into a caged pen designed to take 1000 people then people will get crushed whether they come from Liverpool, Glasgow, Manchester or anywhere else. As far as I am aware the Taylor report documents pretty clearly that police measures that day were seriously deficient, both in the planning and the execution. Turnstiles were inoperable, signage incorrect and police directed fans into danger and not out of it. These errors weren't mistakes only visable in hindsight - they should have been rectified during any reasonable audit of the planning for that day. That was never done. When the consequences of that started to occur the errors were then compounded by incompetent or negligent decision making by those in charge. There was nothing exceptional about the football crowd that turned up to watch football on that day, no matter how much people like Rog would like there to be. What was exceptional was the planning and resources put into managing them which was so incompetent 96 people died. I can understand the anger of those people's friends and relatives when the only account the people responsible for managing the crowd that day have had are a full pension and paid-sickness leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terse Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 As for ‘an unemployed Liverpudlian’, apart from that being amongst the archetypal of examples of tautology if the behaviour of the working class (working? That’s pushing the use of the word ‘work’) of Liverpool had not been so disgusting in the past Liverpool would not be the employment desert that it was and still is. Saying that about a nation or an ethnic group would make you racist. But then, you are...aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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