Lonan3 Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 It was NOT the police, In which case, why did they feel obliged to tell so many blatant lies about their actions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 It was NOT the police, In which case, why did they feel obliged to tell so many blatant lies about their actions? same reasons as with the execution of that chap on the underground. a big arse covering exercise. the police do seem to have made 'mistakes', but police or no police, a large part of an unruly crowd did the damage, if it was only a small part of the crowd, there wouldn't have been enough 'push' to flatten 90+ people into a fence that itself collapsed under the pressure. i'm sticking with pissed scouse wankers as the root cause, without pissed scouse wankers, there wouldn't have been a problem?? if they could behave themselves there would be no need for the police to be there in the first place to be blamed for NOT controlling them properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 without pissed scouse wankers, there wouldn't have been a problem?? if they could behave themselves there would be no need for the police to be there in the first place to be blamed for NOT controlling them properly. Yes, because you only ever see Police at football matches involving Liverpool and Everton - never at any other football matches or any other large gathering of people. Are you sure that you're not pissed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 From Justice Taylor's Interim report (unedited, emphasis mine)... Was Drunkenness a Major Factor in the Crisis at the Turnstiles?196. Of those who arrived at 2.30 pm or after, very many had been drinking at public houses or had brought drink from home or an off-licence. I am satisfied on the evidence, however, that the great majority were not drunk nor even the worse for drink. The police witnesses varied on this. Some described a high proportion as drunk, as "lager-louts" or even as "animals". Others described a generally normal crowd with an unco-operative minority who had drunk too much. In my view some officers, seeking to rationalise their loss of control, overestimated the drunken element in the crowd. There certainly was such an element. There were youngsters influenced by drink and bravado pushing impatiently at the rear of the crowd thereby exacerbating the crush. But the more convincing police witnesses, including especially Detective Superintendent McKay and Chief Inspector Creaser as well as a number of responsible civilian witnesses, were in my view right in describing this element as a minority. Those witnesses attributed the crush to the sheer numbers of fans all anxious to gain entry. There was no criticism of the crowd by any of the witnesses in the period up to 2.30 pm or even 2.35 pm. What happened then was not a sudden deterioration in the mood or sobriety of those assembled there. No doubt those coming behind would have had more to drink and would have included the unruly minority. But the crisis developed because this very large crowd became packed into a confined turnstile area and its very density hampered its passage through the turnstiles. Rog mentioned above that there were two (gasp!) Taylor reports as though this was some kind of dark secret. This is common knowledge. The interim report, quoted above, examined the events of the day and the causes thereof. The Final report concentrated on recommendations to prevent similar incidents from happenening again. Both reports are freely available on a number of sites on the internet in PDF form. As regards the witness statements considered by Justice Taylor - due to the high volume of witness statements, only a selected number of statements were considered by Justice Taylor. The selection of these statements was performed by officers from the West Midlands Police Force, specifically by officers from the West Midlands Serious Crimes Squad which had recently been disbanded after numerous allegations against its officers for essentially torturing suspects and being responsible for a number of serious miscarriages of justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 if it was only a small part of the crowd, there wouldn't have been enough 'push' to flatten 90+ people into a fence that itself collapsed under the pressure. The fence did not collapse under the pressure - one of the anti-crush barriers collapsed. It was later found by the Health and Safety Executive that the barrier, at the time of its construction, did not meet the minimum standards outlined in the official guidlines for this type of barrier. Furthermore, it had corroded since its installation to the point at which one of its supports only had 8mm connecting it to the concrete floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 yawn, so the vast majority were deemed sober? with a stadium that could hold 50k people only a 10 percent MINORITY would be 5000 pissed scouse wankers. refering to a majority or minority without stating the actual figure is a bit pointless, what is a vast majority?? 70,80 90 percent?? even just 1000 pissed scouse wankers could cause grief, ( one fucking local hoon wasted wanker keeps the police busy locally!! ) who would they blame if the police weren't there and they all crushed in?? still the police for not being there i would suspect. the sad part is the so ber sensible folks who got there in plenty of time were the victims of the pissheads, bit like drunk drivers mowing down pedestrians... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Hill Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Are you ok Rog? Does it tire you out finding the most creatively hate-filled response to every event? Yes, I am OK, but I do find the tendency to be constantly looking for blame beyond where it rightly lies tedious. The root cause of the Hillsborough event was the atrocious behaviour of the Liverpool football mob. The dreadful manner in which the Hillsborough event is being portrayed as if it was a group of people killed in some heroic action and worse the manner in which the mob at the commemoration heckled the government minister during his speech (why he had to be the goodness knows) was disgusting. It devalues the commemoration and recognition given and due to those who have been killed in genuine heroic actions or who sacrificed themselves for others. To then go on to continue to attempt to place the blame on the police, a group who were only there because of the dreadful mob behaviour of football and especially Liverpool louts, when the root cause WAS the Liverpool louts is simply perverse. It is sad that nearly 100 people died at Hillsborough, but it is even more sad that the REAL culprits, the Liverpool football hooligans who stampeded into the football ground, are those who should be blamed. Thinking about it perhaps it’s just another example of the cowardice nature of hooligan individual and mobs. Once they themselves get hurt they start to whine that they are being put on and the victims. Typical of the Liverpool psyche. ‘Look at us, how poor we are, how few jobs’, when all along it was the actions of the Liverpool people themselves that drove jobs out from the city. Actually I heard something similar to the above. A friend of mine was at that game (Liverpool supporter) and he said that there was a tremendous amount of pushing from the back of the Liverpool supporters trying to get into the ground and that a large number of the crowd pushing did not have tickets to the match but used the comotion to try and gain entry into the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanxfella Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 The whole thing comes down to a clusterfuck that were it not for the unexpectedly abysmal behaviour of the mob outside of the ground would never have happened. There's only one other user who likes that word ... I think you've just let your alter ego slip Rog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimcalagon Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 yawn, so the vast majority were deemed sober? A high court judge with access to more evidence than you seemed to think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I think that every person who has been dear to WTF and has subsequently died is just a brilliant laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 I think that every person who has been dear to WTF and has subsequently died is just a brilliant laugh tugger by name, tugger by nature. if you bothered to read, i don't believe anybody is 'laughing' at the victims and the bereaved?? it is the pissed mob that want to blame someone else for the deaths THEY caused that is the issue, the police did make mistakes, we know it. but to try and say the crowd were not to blame is ludicrous. obviously the bereaved don't want to blame fellow fans either. pushy pissed wankers one day, become the loudest voices for victims famillies another, it's called guilty conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted April 20, 2009 Share Posted April 20, 2009 Sure, and there's no guilty conscience among the police who fucking LIED. Sorry mate, but you're a cunt - there's really no two ways about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 The whole thing comes down to a clusterfuck that were it not for the unexpectedly abysmal behaviour of the mob outside of the ground would never have happened. There's only one other user who likes that word ... I think you've just let your alter ego slip Rog! If there was only one person that you've encountered that uses that expression then you can now increase it to two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 Sure, and there's no guilty conscience among the police who fucking LIED. Sorry mate, but you're a cunt - there's really no two ways about it i never said i wasn't, , and i never said the police didn't make mistakes or lie either, but the 'crowd' ( pissed scouse wankers ) must have some responsibillity in all this tragedy?? after all, it couldn't have happened without them?? it is the crowd claiming/wanting to appear whiter than white in the incident that i have trouble accepting. to clarify, i'm not blaming the whole crowd, the majority of which just behaved as normal in a 'safe' manner ... as jimcalgon said above "Yes, because you only ever see Police at football matches involving Liverpool and Everton - never at any other football matches or any other large gathering of people. Are you sure that you're not pissed? " obviously alluding to that the police have 'marshalled/policed' many matches prior to this ?? accepting this, the police knew what to do and how to deal with it properly/safely?? based on that, the 'crowd' ( aspects of it atleast, the pissed scouse wanker aspects) must have been the variable that didn't behave as expected/usual?? why not?? tragedy yes, sympathy for the victims and famillies yes, exoneration for the 'aspects' mentioned above???, not fucking likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 The fact is that you have made up your mind that it is the fault of "pissed scouse wankers", and it simply doesn't matter to you that the report concluded otherwise. You WANT, and possibly NEED it to be the fault of pissed scouse wankers for some reason. And that is what makes you a cunt. Can you tell me a story about someone close to you dying, please? I want to laugh about it, you see, and tell you how it was all their fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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