Mezeron & Steam Packet Master Thread

[Blade Runner]

When MW said his company was now struggling for survival - he was right. The reason being, have lost 30% (£10 million revenue) of their freight to a competitor, they will no longer generate sufficient monies to pay their interest obligations. And that is the crux of the matter.

 

The repayment of their borrowings is down to their Business Plan, not our concern. When they got into this UA they took a view that they could borrow heavily on the back of a Monopoly.

 

They made a mistake and underestimated the possibility of container traffic, tuff S**T, if every time I made a bad decision with my business and looked like loosing money, would I run to IOM GOV for a bail out?

 

Yes they employ far more people than I, but if say, one of the other big players over here made a bad call, would they expect public money to bail them out?

[gazza]

 

 

Yes they employ far more people than I, but if say, one of the other big players over here made a bad call, would they expect public money to bail them out?

 

i know of one firm that does that, and keeps going because of it

[gilf_uk]

Some of these freight companies went with Mank Line in the 80s and caught with their pants down. Tesco have switched, do Tesco give a fuck, no they never have had any interest in any local affairs no matter where they have set up.

 

Graylaw have switched. So whoever brings their freight in with Graylaw has switched as well, that includes (according to their website) Shoprite, Eden Park Garden Centres and Isle of Man Creamery. Shoprite has confirmed it uses a number of different haulage firms, and I expect Tesco will as well.

[gilf_uk]

When MW said his company was now struggling for survival - he was right. The reason being, have lost 30% (£10 million revenue) of their freight to a competitor, they will no longer generate sufficient monies to pay their interest obligations. And that is the crux of the matter.

 

The repayment of their borrowings is down to their Business Plan, not our concern. When they got into this UA they took a view that they could borrow heavily on the back of a Monopoly.

 

They made a mistake and underestimated the possibility of container traffic, tuff S**T, if every time I made a bad decision with my business and looked like loosing money, would I run to IOM GOV for a bail out?

 

Yes they employ far more people than I, but if say, one of the other big players over here made a bad call, would they expect public money to bail them out?

 

Again, completely agree. It is not our concern, it is the concern of MIOM and the lender. The SPCo itself, will still be profitable, albeit worth less than it was before.

[The Raven King]

They made a mistake and underestimated the possibility of container traffic, tuff S**T, if every time I made a bad decision with my business and looked like loosing money, would I run to IOM GOV for a bail out?

 

Yes they employ far more people than I, but if say, one of the other big players over here made a bad call, would they expect public money to bail them out?

 

Must be one hell of a business, given that you haven't a command of basic English language. You're not Pop from the League of Gentlemen by any chance?

[ThankU]

The berth in Douglas used by Mezeron is not a reserved berth for ships, it is also used to shelter local boats during bad weather. If Mezeron have got a guaranteed berthing timetable then the Government must have been part of a new agreement. A lot of the ABs from the IOMSP are ex local fishermen who still have a close relationship with the remaining fishing fleet, If the local fishing fleet were to dock in Douglas during Bad weather then where could they be berthed, no room in the inner harbour anymore so the fishing fleet could disrupt Mezeron if so wished and very little they could do about it.

 

http://www.gov.im/transport/harbours//ViewNews.gov?menuid=18393&page=lib/news/transport/harbours/douglasharbourtr42.xml

Edited November 5, 2010 by ThankU

[gilf_uk]

The berth in Douglas used by Mezeron is not a reserved berth for ships, it is also used to shelter local boats during bad weather. If Mezeron have got a guaranteed berthing timetable then the Government must have been part of a new agreement. A lot of the ABs from the IOMSP are ex local fishermen who still have a close relationship with the remaining fishing fleet, If the local fishing fleet were to dock in Douglas during Bad weather then where could they be berthed, no room in the inner harbour anymore so the fishing fleet could disrupt Mezeron if so wished and very little they could do about it.

 

http://www.gov.im/transport/harbours//ViewNews.gov?menuid=18393&page=lib/news/transport/harbours/douglasharbourtr42.xml

 

The link you provided took us through to the general harbour link - can you provide a link which confirms your statement?

 

And really, do the Isle of Man fishing fleet have nothing better to do than park up in Douglas in a battle which has nothing at all to do with them? I think the public would see that as pretty transparent and really quite petty.

 

This is a commercial battle, where one company has been short-sighted and been mortgaged up to the hilt, and another which has been in the game for a long time, is a recognised competitor to the Steam Packet, who has enhanced their service.

 

Edited to correct sp.

Edited November 5, 2010 by gilf_uk

[ThankU]

The berth in Douglas used by Mezeron is not a reserved berth for ships, it is also used to shelter local boats during bad weather. If Mezeron have got a guaranteed berthing timetable then the Government must have been part of a new agreement. A lot of the ABs from the IOMSP are ex local fishermen who still have a close relationship with the remaining fishing fleet, If the local fishing fleet were to dock in Douglas during Bad weather then where could they be berthed, no room in the inner harbour anymore so the fishing fleet could disrupt Mezeron if so wished and very little they could do about it.

 

http://www.gov.im/transport/harbours//ViewNews.gov?menuid=18393&page=lib/news/transport/harbours/douglasharbourtr42.xml

 

The link you provided took us through to the general harbour link - can you provide a link which confirms your statement? THE ONLY GUARANTEED FREIGHT BERTH IN DOUGLAS IS THAT OF THE USER AGREEMENT WITH SP. Some very strange laws governing Douglas harbours, did you know that derelict boats berthed in the inner harbours cannot be removed with an act of Tynwald being passed.

 

And really, do the Isle of Man fishing fleet have nothing better to do than park up in Douglas in a battle which has nothing at all to do with them? I think the public would see that as pretty transparent and really quite petty.

 

This is a commercial battle, where one company has been short-sighted and been mortgaged up to the hilt, and another which has been in the game for a long time, is a recognised competitor to the Steam Packet, who has enhanced their service.

 

Edited to correct sp.

 

Just if the IOMSP were to go out of business overnight do you think Mezeron would come to the rescue, Will Mezerons service bring down your cost of living or save you any money.

 

Many of the current skippers and crews on SP have come from the Local fishing industry not some third world country.

Edited November 5, 2010 by ThankU

[metisse]

 

 

Yes they employ far more people than I, but if say, one of the other big players over here made a bad call, would they expect public money to bail them out?

 

i know of one firm that does that, and keeps going because of it

JCK by any chance?

[gilf_uk]

Just if the IOMSP were to go out of business overnight do you think Mezeron would come to the rescue, Will Mezerons service bring down your cost of living or save you any money.

 

IOMSP would not go out of business overnight - in terms of service - it is an extremelly viable business, minus the huge debt around it's neck. And that debt sits, not with the trading company, SPCo, but with it's parent company, MIOM.

 

The parent company, MIOM, may breach its banking covenants, but the SPCo will continue to run, albeit with less turnover and less profit.

 

In 2006, the company turned over £48 million, making a profit of £17 million (before financing). The figure placed on the loss of freight is £10 million. So lets just do a straight cut - £38 million turnover and £7 million profit.

 

Now, there may not be enough in the £7 million profit to service the debt, but it's still a very real profit, and shows the business is viable, without the £10 million turnover from freight it's lost.

 

So, no, I don't expect Mezeron to come to the rescue - no need - the business is a going concern, it's just the owner that went bust because it couldn't service it's loan.

[gazza]

The berth in Douglas used by Mezeron is not a reserved berth for ships, it is also used to shelter local boats during bad weather. If Mezeron have got a guaranteed berthing timetable then the Government must have been part of a new agreement. A lot of the ABs from the IOMSP are ex local fishermen who still have a close relationship with the remaining fishing fleet, If the local fishing fleet were to dock in Douglas during Bad weather then where could they be berthed, no room in the inner harbour anymore so the fishing fleet could disrupt Mezeron if so wished and very little they could do about it.

 

http://www.gov.im/transport/harbours//ViewNews.gov?menuid=18393&page=lib/news/transport/harbours/douglasharbourtr42.xml

 

The link you provided took us through to the general harbour link - can you provide a link which confirms your statement? THE ONLY GUARANTEED FREIGHT BERTH IN DOUGLAS IS THAT OF THE USER AGREEMENT WITH SP. Some very strange laws governing Douglas harbours, did you know that derelict boats berthed in the inner harbours cannot be removed with an act of Tynwald being passed.

 

And really, do the Isle of Man fishing fleet have nothing better to do than park up in Douglas in a battle which has nothing at all to do with them? I think the public would see that as pretty transparent and really quite petty.

 

This is a commercial battle, where one company has been short-sighted and been mortgaged up to the hilt, and another which has been in the game for a long time, is a recognised competitor to the Steam Packet, who has enhanced their service.

 

Edited to correct sp.

 

Just if the IOMSP were to go out of business overnight do you think Mezeron would come to the rescue, Will Mezerons service bring down your cost of living or save you any money.

 

Many of the current skippers and crews on SP have come from the Local fishing industry not some third world country.

 

well YES mezeron will bring most costs down, and save me a lot of cash. hence the reason i have allways used them when ever i can.

 

so you think the iom govenment should step in and stop them from doing what they are doing.

thats never going to happin is it.

Edited November 6, 2010 by gazza

[Keith]

Just a quick question, do the posters on here use the IOMSP that often? I for one use it about once or maybe twice a year as I find it far more convenient to fly.

 

Even when I do use it, I could just as easily fly and hire a car, just that I like driving my own.

 

What is every one else's usage?

 

I do about 12 return crossings per year. Of those, about 8 are with a vehicle and about 4 as foot passenger. In years gone-by, it was about 15 to 20 but day trips for football have become increasingly difficult and often, because of winter sailings to Liverpool on Saturday morning and back from Heysham 02:15 Sunday, practically impossible. When I paid £80 for a return to watch a game of football, I decided enough was enough. The vehicle trips are almost all work related.

 

I hate flying but I'm resigning myself to the fact that I will just have to do so. Next week's trip off island is a flight to Blackpool. More inconvenient in terms of carrying stuff with me and needing to rent a car but car hire & flight to Blackpool is massively cheaper than sailing. It has been generally similar in price for a while and coupled with my hate of flying, the boat just about won but it is increasingly difficult to justify the extra cost.

 

Will government ignore or cave in? Well there is an election next year and MHK's get lots of moans about level of service going down and price of fair going up I would not be surprised if Government bow.

 

Defending the useless agreement and opposing free enterprise could, just as likely, turn out to be an unpopular stance which would speak of political stasis and support for vested interests.

 

Not that the election makes much difference because the same continuity govt will be returned no matter what policy decisions are taken.

 

It could go either way but I am guessing the majority who complain to their MHK will be those affected by price rises or reduced services. They are probably the people who ring up their MHK if they have a problem with the bins

 

Therefore when Gladys from No. 10 starts moaning that she can not get off the Island any more because the prices have gone up or their are fewer boats and wants to know want her MHK is going to do about it, I have not much faith many will say nothing just before an election

 

The problem for the SPC in my opinion is that they have treated the public with disdain for many years. The management have ripped us off (as evidenced by the 30%+ profits quoted) and the 'front of office' staff are in the main appalling and at times down-right obnoxious (at the Douglas end). I will add that while the Liverpool land & fast-craft crew are a bit 'hit & miss' re customer care, the crew on the Ben are always excellent and the people in the accounts department, who I've occasionally had dealings with were always very helpful. Staff at Heysham are usually decent too.

 

The SPC's 'tough, we're a monopoly, what you going to do about it' attitude has left them as a company that many people really don't give a toss about. I'm not sure there will be a ground-swell of opinion backing them, making it easier for the politicians to let them go. If they had provided a decent service at a decent price, the public would be up in arms. Instead they treated passengers like crap (from the management level) and now they reap what they sowed. Of course it could be argued that if they had treated all their customers (including freight) with respect and not left them feeling ripped off, they wouldn't be in this position in the first place?

 

Like I say, it is sad and I really don't want to fly any more than I really have to. I would choose car & Ben over fly & hire any day of the week. And even though I will very really be affected by increased prices (so I fly more &/or travel less) or it potentially going under (definitely fly more) or reduced sailings (loss of convenient times, therefore fly more) I feel no urge to chase my MHK and badger him to protect the company.

 

Incidentally, as a 'heavy user' of the years, scrapping the 'Sail & Save' where the average price of five sailings in any twelve months was knocked off the next sailing, equalled a 20% increase at a stroke. Also I now rarely get a 'special offer'. I would love to know how many 'day trips' etc they make available now compared to 10 years ago? I always used to be able to turn up on the day of sailing if I wanted to go to a football match and get a day return offer. The last time I just turned up (and paid about £80) there were 'no day-trips available' but the boat was far from full. So the 'basic' fare may be comparable but in real terms I believe passenger prices are greatly increased over the last ten to fifteen years.

 

Oh... and I liked the King Orry, lots of room to sleep under the tables on the over-night sailing!

[Fulltide]

" gilf_uk"

 

"IOMSP would not go out of business overnight - in terms of service - it is an extremelly viable business, minus the huge debt around it's neck"

 

What's your maths at now rude.

 

Cheers

[acorn]

 

Sorry you feel like that. The magazine does have a large content based on the heritage and history of the Steam Packet but it also covers present day events and it covers other aspects of Manx and other Irish Sea shipping as well.The web site tends just to concentrate on the Steam Packet because of band width limitations and there is a technical issue with it at the moment which has prevented it being updated this month.It is a shipping enthusiasts magazine.However I make no secret of the fact that we do support the Steam Packet and sympathise with its point of view and I think we are entitled to do that.

I hope I do not appear arrogant and disdainful of anyone elses point of view because of that.Nothing could be further from the truth. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but that does include me as well.But some of the offensive language and aggressive tone have not really added to an informed debate on this forum.

As for being Liverpool based that is because of circumstances. When the magazine started 10 years ago only the editorial side was based in Liverpool - everything else was based in the Isle of Man. However the Manx based partner in the magazine sadly passed away in 2004 and so everything had to be concentrated in Liverpool from then on.

Liverpool is the other end of the main service provided by the Steam Packet (and now Mezeron!) from Douglas. For those of us who regularly visit the Isle of Man and have done so for over half a century, the IOMSPCo and the events surrounding it are of great interest. I am sure you are not suggesting only Manx residents are entitled to a view?

Best Regards

AJS

[/quote

 

 

 

 

Not for the minute am I trying to suggest that a, Liverpool based, SP magazine publisher is not entitled to an opinion on the latest SP fiasco. It's most apparent that you are a proponent of free speech, I'm confident therefore that you'll be relaxed with me pointing put your vested interest in the SP, not to mention your contacts in the company. MR Woodward???

 

Anyway such is life, it's all about opinion.

 

I'm reliably informed that you took over a Yahoo mailing list, set up by a youngster, and changed it to a 'Friends of the Steam Packet' list. How did it go on? Or doesn't the company have any friends? Other than your business naturally.

[Fulltide]

" acorn"

 

"Other than your business naturally"

 

How is your business naturally now son.

 

Cheers