Election Post-Mortem

[Norseman]

As indicated in the editorial in the Independent a week or two ago, the current pay is wonderful for those whose alternative is a lot less. Any reasonable person would have to accept that those who are currently earning less than c.50k per year and do not have a decent pension, and so are prepared to stand, are unlikely to be captains of industy or intellectual giants. We will not get a better quality of candidate until the pay increases and the mindless criticism of MHKs' pensions stops.

[Albert Tatlock]

Tis rather sad that we are already having a post-mortem, when the poor victim is still alive and about to go into 'electoral-surgery'.

 

But given: the calibre of many of the candidates; the last minute unpreparedness of many of the new candidates; all the wrong priorities ('I will fight to protect health and education') and not talk about how it is to be paid for, taxation, likely job cuts, cutting the civil and public services, and mothballing some of our national heritage; the general very poor understanding of economics and how the island actually ticks economically; and another year of 'spend, spend, spend' past - tis no surprise really.

[wheels]

As indicated in the editorial in the Independent a week or two ago, the current pay is wonderful for those whose alternative is a lot less. Any reasonable person would have to accept that those who are currently earning less than c.50k per year and do not have a decent pension, and so are prepared to stand, are unlikely to be captains of industy or intellectual giants. We will not get a better quality of candidate until the pay increases and the mindless criticism of MHKs' pensions stops.

 

So for arguments sake

 

If we take Mr Skinner in Douglas West - not my constituency btw

A former head of Fire Safety - rank ( under the old names ) Divisional Officer ( based on the rank given for the person currently in that role on http://www.iomfire.com/SMT.htm

He will be on a full pension having done 30 years according to http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/john_skinner_steps_forward_as_legco_candidate_1_1746393 (an MR report on his attempting to get into Legco in 2010)

He will have accrued 2/3rds of his final salary as a pension

(An idea of rates at http://www.prospects.ac.uk/firefighter_salary.htm)

Granted that this is a recent salary indicator and that he will have been earning less at his point of retirement.

However his pension will be index linked and rise annually under the rules of the old Fire Service Penson scheme which he will have been be on

 

So taking What They Get (25 July 2011) source IOM Examiner Page 9 July 19th 2011

 

Member Of Tynwald £36,441 plus expenses £6178 = £42,619 total

Plus a fire service pension of 2/3rds salary with some years of index linked additions

= 70 k plus?

 

Exactly how much is someone who if not a 'minister' mainly performs the duties of a UK councillor worth?

eg Dog Pooh and other matters of intense importance to the elector

Especially when multiplied by the number in that role here.

A population of 80 thousand here has the equivalent of 24 UK MPs if a very broad and maybe uninformed comparison is sought

 

 

Of course there is the point that being able to afford to be an MHK should not be reliant on a Teachers or Firemans pension being on tap to supplemen the 'meagre' stipend.

 

 

Perhaps the way forward is a reduction in MHks and a new definition of their roles?

[Norseman]

Wheels, saying that the current pay is adequate because one of the candidates has a pension and when you add this to the pay they would receive if elected would provide an income of c. 70k seems completly irrelevant (and slightly bizarre).

 

I get very depressed when I hear the same people whinging, on the one hand, that MHKs get paid too much and, on the other, that more people of quality are not standing. Let's face it, many such people just don't like to see MHKs earning more than themselves - even though these people are our policy makers and legislators and to pay more would attract a better quality of candidate and would help to secure a better outlook for this island.

 

No, some would rather whinge about the current pay of MHKs and then whinge about the lack of quality. And if their numbers were reduced the same people could whinge about them all getting an enhancement because they would all be ministers or members of departments. And then of course they could whinge that there's no independent voice in the Keys because they're all ministers or members.

 

Cutting the pay or numbers in Tynwald would have no significant effect in reducing public expenditure. The total paybill, even if they were to receive an increase, is trivial when viewed as a proportion of total government expenditure. Such actions would be very short sighted and would simply further reduce the quality of candidates. The best investment we could have made in our future would have been to increase the salaries on offer to prospective MHKs. Only then would we would have faced the real possibility of making our electoral choices from a strong and broadly based field of candidates with the abilities to tackle the difficult issues which face us.

[wheels]

I cannot see anywhere in my post that I stated the income is adequate.

 

What I did do is to point out that a number of those standing already have alternative incomes that will not be reduced by them becoming MHKs.

 

Probably this applies to older candidates with previous long term careers.

 

I then point out that the ability to stand for a position as MHK should not be reliant on alternative incomes.

 

It could be postulated that this may deter younger candiates.

 

The solutions to the present financial cicumstances could be applied by those already in the postions.

 

They know what is required but seem unable to implement.

[John Wright]

I suppose we could have a post mortem on nominations, but hardly on an election that has not yet taken place.

 

I attended at and gave evidence to the Boundary Committee today.

 

We need better electoral registration, >56% in Douglas East, >75% Island wide, (its 95% in Northern Ireland, 1 in 4 electors disenfranchised, and with turn outs in the range of 50 to 60% that means a real turn out of 35% to 40%), we need parties so we have a choice of policies, and so candidates could have some sort of pre vetting, we need better ways of voting, we need equality of votes and representatives per elector, we need confidence in the system to be restored. We need national politicians, not glorified social workers, who act as local councillors, that means stronger local government so issues can be taken up and dealt with at that level

 

We do not need a 1 constituency 24 seat all island election, directly elected Chief Ministers, political placemen in departments for the dosh and to buy their votes, fewer MHK's or MLC's (concentrating power even more narrowly and giving no independent legislative body to scrutinise and hold to account

 

judy, after 2006, some members here started to discuss forming a party but they would not give up anonimity and could not agree on any fundamentals, less transparent than the 24, I'm afraid

[wheels]

 

We need better electoral registration, >56% in Douglas East, >75% Island wide, (its 95% in Northern Ireland, 1 in 4 electors disenfranchised, and with turn outs in the range of 50 to 60% that means a real turn out of 35% to 40%)

 

I do agree with that. It gets to the heart of the problem. People do tend to not really bother.

And so reap what they sow - unfortunately.

[Shake me up Judy]

Before this one slips off the front page, I'd like to keep it going by agreeing with most of what John has posted above. If an attempt at concerted politics failed on here after the last election then we need to try again. We all predicted the poor field of candidates, but listening to some of the broadcasts I think we over-estimated. The thing is though that some of these candidates, if given support and a party / group structure in the years leading up to the election may have made better and worthy candidates. It's not entirely their fault and at least many of them have had a go for honourable reasons, but because of the absence of grass-roots politics and the 'seeding' of potential future representatives, we end up with this unedifying and often farcical spectacle every five years that throws up too many clueless Tom, Dick, Harry and Janes in a six week dash from nowhere.

 

It's another irony that the LibVans, given five years to prepare, are putting up a candidate in Garff against the widely respected Steve Rodan, and yet only at the last minute entered a candidate in Ramsey where the real power struggle should be taking place to topple one (or both) of the two sitting MHKs. This is probably by far the most important constituency to contest and they've shown pretty poor strategy.

 

If the two incumbents in Ramsey are returned prepare to see pictures of Alan Bell holding the orb and sceptre but Annie Craine stood inches behind him with her hand between his legs ready to squeeze the crown jewels. I doubt that's what any of us, not least Alan, really wants.

[Uhtred]

Before this one slips off the front page, I'd like to keep it going by agreeing with most of what John has posted above. If an attempt at concerted politics failed on here after the last election then we need to try again. We all predicted the poor field of candidates, but listening to some of the broadcasts I think we over-estimated. The thing is though that some of these candidates, if given support and a party / group structure in the years leading up to the election may have made better and worthy candidates. It's not entirely their fault and at least many of them have had a go for honourable reasons, but because of the absence of grass-roots politics and the 'seeding' of potential future representatives, we end up with this unedifying and often farcical spectacle every five years that throws up too many clueless Tom, Dick, Harry and Janes in a six week dash from nowhere.

 

It's another irony that the LibVans, given five years to prepare, are putting up a candidate in Garff against the widely respected Steve Rodan, and yet only at the last minute entered a candidate in Ramsey where the real power struggle should be taking place to topple one (or both) of the two sitting MHKs. This is probably by far the most important constituency to contest and they've shown pretty poor strategy.

 

If the two incumbents in Ramsey are returned prepare to see pictures of Alan Bell holding the orb and sceptre but Annie Craine stood inches behind him with her hand between his legs ready to squeeze the crown jewels. I doubt that's what any of us, not least Alan, really wants.

 

Quite frankly, it's piss-poor that after 5 years preparation LVP have failed to contest every constituency...indeed, barely half of them.

[Barrie Stevens]

 

We need better electoral registration, >56% in Douglas East, >75% Island wide, (its 95% in Northern Ireland, 1 in 4 electors disenfranchised, and with turn outs in the range of 50 to 60% that means a real turn out of 35% to 40%)

 

I do agree with that. It gets to the heart of the problem. People do tend to not really bother.

And so reap what they sow - unfortunately.

 

That was my experience back in the 2005 Douglas By-Election when I was sort of "press-ganged" into standing much against my own better judgement and with some trepidation.

 

Nevertheless, possessed by an evil spirit I went ahead with much the same feelings as a trooper in The Charge of the Light Brigade!

 

Certainly, those few people who were actually interested and not already fed up by other candidates calling were mostly only interested in local issues. I counted 36 moans about dog-mess in the Woodbourne Square area alone and there were many more moans about broken paving slabs, kerbs, school dinners, parking and crime etc.

 

One or two people were in tune with me and we discussed such as the VAT sharing agreement (would it survive?) and encroaching restrictions on the Finance Sector and how the Island "Has got maybe 20 years left"...In fact, those people who were in tune or aware or had read some of my stuff in the papers were in agreement but maybe that I was a little ahead of the time?

 

Anyway. It is now happening!

 

A surprising number of people in the "posher" parts were concerned that Human Rights were being hi-jacked and become the lawyers' playground rather than the brake on extreme oppression by the State for which the human rights Convention was devised.

 

Overall, it was very parochial and many people said that the Island was really run by the Council of Ministers as a form of Court of Star Chamber and the "King" in the form of the UK issued its edicts which the Island had to obey. The same for the EU by proxy...

 

I mean there was very little interest in anything other than the banal and parochial. OK. Fair enough if that is what they want!

 

In other words, I believe that it is the parochial that people want. Electing high-powered, intellectual or worldly wise MHKs on big money would be futile as how ever good they are (or at least able to cope in competition with the "heavy guns" from London) they would be largely unappreciated and if too smart probably unelectable.

 

Frankly most people were totaly cynical about all MHKs/Tynwald etc.....!(A pox upon them all!)

 

I tramped about knocking on most doors and amongst other experiences was sat down with a plate of biscuits, coffee and a harangued about the poor quality of bananas in Robinson's and what would I do about it if elected? .....Then I was told they would not vote for me as I taken the only chocolate biscuit in the selection and was clearly a flawed character on the make! (See what I mean about being parochial?)

 

One woman got very rude and said that she would not vote for me as I was not Manx. I then looked and pointed out that she could not vote as she had not registered. (Door slams!)

 

Often I found myself just keeping some lonely old people company for extended periods which I had not the heart to deny them and drank endless cups of tea whilst looking at old photographs....

 

One couple were very keen to invite me in and they polished off a bottle of Scotch between them and I finished off another whole bottle (of their Scotch) on my own! That must be some sort of qualification for being an MHK?...But even this couple said that voting was a waste of time and that Tynwald had no real power.....(I thought Oh well. I mean at least I got a drink out of it!)

 

I got the impression that the better the candidate ...and I do not mean myself far from it....then the less chance they have of being elected.

 

I was rather glad when it was all over as it was not for me! It was rather like being an actor in a corny pantomime but contracted to run for ten weeks playing to a largely empty house....Maybe this 2011 election will be different?...

 

I can laugh at it all now and amd gald that I did stand. It has become a sort of after dinner story: "The day I stood for Parliament. A Landslide defeat. 62 Votes!" Ah! But votes of such quality...(there are some discerning voters about)....I kept all the paperwork, manifesto and recordings etc....

 

After all. Not everyone can say that they have stood for election to the world's oldest continuous parliament and for some reason some people I meet in the UK are interested (After a good dinner anyway!)

 

As they say, "Well I never knew that the Isle of Wight even had a Parliament let alone one that's over a thousand years old!"

[Joushag]

There are over two and a half thousand other potential candidates living in my constituency and yet I am the only one with the balls to put my name forward. I am the boss of my own company, I do a job that I truly enjoy and I have a great home with a wife that I love. Life is good for me at the moment and it’s thanks to bloody hard work and determination that I have made it this way. So why would I want to put all this at risk to become a politician? Why would I choose to be labelled as part of an “X-Factor of chancers, egomaniacs, pension chasers, no-hopers and the deluded”?

Perhaps it’s because I choose to care enough about the land of my birth and the people I proudly share it with? Or because I feel some obligation to the generations before me who through their sacrifices allowed us to inherit this brilliant Island and entrusted us to take care of it for future generations.

I agree that there are candidates who simply see the position of MHK as a job with reasonable salary, pension etc. However, there are some of us who see it as position of trust and one of huge responsibility. It is position that rarely brings credit and often brings criticism but I can think of few positions more worthwhile. It is such a shame that nearly half of our population show little enthusiasm for Manx politics and I wonder if the ‘quality’ of our candidates is to blame?

Yes, you do have balls - big balls!!! It takes a lot of balls to be an MKH and take all the flak that they get. You have to expect that though when the political system is one where you have little potential to make big changes for the Island for the electorate. That's is why the MHKs get so much stick. . Although if you are happy to take blame then that is your decision.

It is a shame though that you are so misguided about the public when you wish to play a part in representing them. The public are very political - all of a person's actions can be said to be politically motivated. They are only disillusioned with a method of expressing their opinions.

When the candidates are poor and the voting turnout very low hopefully the public will come to look more at the Manx political system rather than being stupid and carrying on voting for the sake of it. I don't know how that would happen though. I think some people don't know what else to do than vote though. For them, they think that is being political.

[il buono]

There are over two and a half thousand other potential candidates living in my constituency and yet I am the only one with the balls to put my name forward. I am the boss of my own company, I do a job that I truly enjoy and I have a great home with a wife that I love. Life is good for me at the moment and it’s thanks to bloody hard work and determination that I have made it this way. So why would I want to put all this at risk to become a politician? Why would I choose to be labelled as part of an “X-Factor of chancers, egomaniacs, pension chasers, no-hopers and the deluded”?

Perhaps it’s because I choose to care enough about the land of my birth and the people I proudly share it with? Or because I feel some obligation to the generations before me who through their sacrifices allowed us to inherit this brilliant Island and entrusted us to take care of it for future generations.

I agree that there are candidates who simply see the position of MHK as a job with reasonable salary, pension etc. However, there are some of us who see it as position of trust and one of huge responsibility. It is position that rarely brings credit and often brings criticism but I can think of few positions more worthwhile. It is such a shame that nearly half of our population show little enthusiasm for Manx politics and I wonder if the ‘quality’ of our candidates is to blame?

Yes, you do have balls - big balls!!! It takes a lot of balls to be an MKH and take all the flak that they get. You have to expect that though when the political system is one where you have little potential to make big changes for the Island for the electorate. That's is why the MHKs get so much stick. . Although if you are happy to take blame then that is your decision.

It is a shame though that you are so misguided about the public when you wish to play a part in representing them. The public are very political - all of a person's actions can be said to be politically motivated. They are only disillusioned with a method of expressing their opinions.

When the candidates are poor and the voting turnout very low hopefully the public will come to look more at the Manx political system rather than being stupid and carrying on voting for the sake of it. I don't know how that would happen though. I think some people don't know what else to do than vote though. For them, they think that is being political.

 

Agree. You do have to give anyone who becomes an MHK a bit of credit for what is a bit of a thankless job, no matter what you do someone will always be upset by it. In truth you are just a front man/woman for the real power base behind, being prepped and Maneuvered by the heads of department. Cretney for example with the bus/train issues. At least he had the balls to to action somethings pre-election, unlike the rest who, if back in will undoubtedly be swinging the axe after they've shook your hand and got your vote!