Albert Tatlock Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Chris Thomas sounds like he is completely isolated on this. Most MHKs know exactly what the public response would be, and, the fact is, they are frightened of it, as it would represent nothing less than a public confidence vote. This also may be more a shortage of communication skills on Chris's part, allies need to be built up first and more firm proposals needed to be suggested. 'Shall we all stand in front of the public Turkey shoot?' is not the right approach with the people currently in charge or representing us. This is how they work generally, no matter what good ideas people come up with, those people can find they are quickly isolated, often through ridicule, or as in this case just mobbed out. The only thing that will change things will be a political party (or a pledge to act on specific points between, say, 20 candidates first) who then gain a majority with public backing - and act. No matter what we say on here, this government is on a set course and is unlikely to change. The spend, spend, spend, deckchair rearranging, ostrich approach. Instead of trying to change what is going on now, we should be building for the next election. Radical reform is needed, and instead of waiting till the weeks before the election, that should be being discussed now by 20 people willing to sign up, with clear aims, objectives and policies being set to rescue the island from people that are quite simply driving it into the ground, and have been doing so for the past 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Chris Thomas is apparently not frightened of the public's views. Flipping heck, the man might even believe in democracy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heston Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I agree with Albert, Chris is isolated and he will need to build alliances within Government before calling for a Turkey Shoot. The government are coming to a point where with an election just around the corner do not want the boat rocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisenchuk Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I am not surprised, what would it achieve, really? The public would say we want to pay less tax and the government would say we need more tax to pay for governing. You cant keep asking the public to make decisions as the public dont know what is good for them. But the public might say they would prefer 2% on Income Tax rather than an arbitrary £50 this year and £100 next year toilet tax on every household. That is a fair and reasonable method and has my vote. The public don't all say that - and where do you think that was said anyway? Reasonable and fair is to live within your means in the first instance. Raise income tax by 2% with current government spending attitudes and approaches, and you'll have to do it year on year, never mind having to do so simply adjusting for inflation on what you raised previous years. Just to clarify what I mean. Income tax is a far fairer,transparent, and acceptable method of raising the revenues that Govt need to run the show. But I fully agree with you that before any increases in any tax are imposed that there should be a proper justification for those rises,and yes I agree that the current shower have no intentions of living within their means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisenchuk Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I am not surprised, what would it achieve, really? The public would say we want to pay less tax and the government would say we need more tax to pay for governing. You cant keep asking the public to make decisions as the public dont know what is good for them. But the public might say they would prefer 2% on Income Tax rather than an arbitrary £50 this year and £100 next year toilet tax on every household.That is a fair and reasonable method and has my vote.Not a chance. An island of 85,000 people does not need a huge state to administer it. Never has and never will. We need to dismantle it ASAP. There's one thing holding us back and that is greed, pure and simple. I agree with you Lxxx,please see my post previous to this one. I am not proposing tax rises to continue supporting current inefficient Govt and huge pensions etc. I am in favour of Govt revenue raising being narrowed down to income tax and VAT rather than reams of iniquitous stealth charges being imposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norville Rogers Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I am astounded that anyone would assume that our feudal lords and masters would even consider a discussion on revenue and tribute (tax) with the plebs. Good grief man next people will want to consider, think and discuss why they are on a never ending hamster wheel killing themselves for bits of paper that our lords and masters create at will and say are valuable, that people subsequently decide are valuable between themselves in order to service all the skimmers, shysters, proclamations, bloat and edicts to be told by their overlords they won't discuss it. Do turkey's vote for Christmas? Get a grip man. Next you will ask them why the hell are you subservient to a whole host of laws, work to death for 30 years for a roof over your head and pay 3x over the odds for the priviledge, payments on threat of violence and/or loss of liberty to your overlords and struggle. Get a grip man who do you think you are? How dare you question the status quo and get back in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 An independent inquiry is not the same as public consultation. The inquiry can have whatever form the Government, or L-G, decides: Inquiries (Evidence) Act 2003 http://www.legislation.gov.im/cms/images/LEGISLATION/PRINCIPAL/2003/2003-0008/InquiriesEvidenceAct2003_1.pdf "1 Application of Act (1) This Act applies to — (a) an inquiry held by a person appointed by the Governor, the Governor in Council or the Council of Ministers to inquire into any matter; or (b) an inquiry held or caused to be held by a Department — (i) pursuant to any statutory power to do so, or (ii) into the proposed exercise of any function of the Department, where Tynwald has resolved that the powers conferred by this Act shall be exercisable in relation to the inquiry." There are some MHKs who believe in having an independent expert inquiry into public revenue raising I believe, some even have something similar in their manifestos. As the motion was not seconded, it can be brought back at any time. My speech will be in Hansard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Chris Thomas - 309 posts Allan Bell - 0 posts Chris, have you considered starting a blog where you post updates on the latest shananigans in Tynwald and explain your side of things? I would like to see other MHKs such as Kate Beecroft do the same. A few statuses on Facebook isn't enough to take on the government propaganda machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Chris Thomas - 309 posts Allan Bell - 0 posts Chris, have you considered starting a blog where you post updates on the latest shananigans in Tynwald and explain your side of things? I would like to see other MHKs such as Kate Beecroft do the same. A few statuses on Facebook isn't enough to take on the government propaganda machine. Thanks TJ. My questions, motions and other contributions have been grouped around policy campaigns already, and I agree that they can be organised and presented in the way you suggest, similarly any how. This is work in progress from my side. But be realistic, as Albert has observed. Most importantly 2016 general election has started, and I hope it will be characterized by 'programme politics' or 'manifesto politics' so that the next government has a national mandate for what it attempts to do, 'mandate politics'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Bring on the 'Programme Politics'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civil Servant Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I can't wait for the next general election. I'm going to be campaigning on a manifesto of bigger government and bigger government salaries. I will also demonise welfare recipients during my campaign in order to trick private sector workers into voting for me even though it will be against their own interest. Never underestimate the power of fear and a trumped up bogey man to mobilise a population into voting against their own interest. Bring on 2016!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Surely you've already got a safe seat in the office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civil Servant Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Surely you've already got a safe seat in the office? You're right but sometimes you have to stand up, do the right thing, speak out against injustice and defend the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisenchuk Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Chris Thomas - 309 posts Allan Bell - 0 posts Chris, have you considered starting a blog where you post updates on the latest shananigans in Tynwald and explain your side of things? I would like to see other MHKs such as Kate Beecroft do the same. A few statuses on Facebook isn't enough to take on the government propaganda machine. Allan Bell - 0 posts The same as his credibility score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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