ian rush Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 UK cost for ID cards for 65m people was quoted by the independent LSE report as being £19bn or about £230per person. Allowing economies of scale, the Isle of Man would be looking at a cost of at least £25m, even assuming we could piggy bag access to the UK technology. And that's on top of gas and electric. I'm also interested to see precisely what type of crime will be prevented by this technology. Any suggestions from those in favour of the principle if not the cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Prevent crime or terrorism? I suspect that in practice it will be as effective as CCTV is at preventing crime or terrorism – i.e. in reality pretty bloody useless. The argument given though is that by accumulating masses of data and making use of relational database, knowledge base, Expert System and AI technologies it will enable ‘profiling’ and so identification of likely candidates who would seem to be probable future villains. Nasty stuff. There is another argument that I suspect is probably more accurate that by making every bloody thing dependent on swiping your ID it will simply make our society very hard to do anything in without leaving a trail. The problem with that is that it doesn’t work when dealing with homicide bombers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian rush Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Rog, it's rare that I agree with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-rhymes Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I also agree with Rog on this one. He is wrong about Africa though :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 The thing that's still ringing in my ears from the last thread about ID cards is, that the Yanks want access to the database "to prevent terrorism" and Tony will probably be happy to oblige - that's worrying...(although luckily not for me ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhumsaa Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 Thin end of the wedge for Big Brother you jest now but it'll happen soon enough remove our liberties as we can't be trusted to do anything other than live in a police state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted June 29, 2005 Author Share Posted June 29, 2005 Just as a thought, imagine they came to be compulsary, and you needed to swipe your card to get into say a pub, club, off licience...could be quite effective if it was taken away from you for anti-social behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Fugit Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I've already got my identity card, issued in Castletown, and I have my petrol coupons as well. So what's new ? The thing that would make me annoyed is having to carry extra junk with me, I don't carry my driving licence or other trash unless I am away from home or need it for particular purposes. As far as I know it is not a requirement to carry your driving licence, log book and insurance when driving, it was ok when the driving licence was a little orange book which would fit in the back of your cheque book, but not the modern bulky plastic folder which just lives in a drawer at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian rush Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Just as a thought, imagine they came to be compulsary, and you needed to swipe your card to get into say a pub, club, off licience...could be quite effective if it was taken away from you for anti-social behaviour. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm sure taking them off people for being pissed or anti-social behaviour will go a long way towards the stated aim of preventing terrorism. From your post it seems you'd be happy for all your details to be held and available to every pub, club and off-licence in the land. That's what would be required if you had to swipe to get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted June 30, 2005 Author Share Posted June 30, 2005 Just as a thought, imagine they came to be compulsary, and you needed to swipe your card to get into say a pub, club, off licience...could be quite effective if it was taken away from you for anti-social behaviour. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm sure taking them off people for being pissed or anti-social behaviour will go a long way towards the stated aim of preventing terrorism. From your post it seems you'd be happy for all your details to be held and available to every pub, club and off-licence in the land. That's what would be required if you had to swipe to get in. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Fair do, it was only a very broad scenario i suggested. I think you may find that there is a tremendous amount of information already held on various data bases anyway. A few years ago now, i went on the spur of the moment into a bank, for one of those marvelous consolidation loans, they wanted to know how much i owed to various people, as i had no papers they put my details into a computer i.e name, address, dob. The woman returned with a printed sheet, with all my balances, including Great Universal stores catalogue...scary stuff. I can't imagine they will end terrorism, but i'm sure they they would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian rush Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 That'll be your Equifax rating. We've all got one. A girl I know was offered a job at Isle of Man Bank but had it withdrawn because she was a couple of weeks late on a monthly installment of a £300 catalogue balance. She's been told if the loan balance is paid off the next available job is hers. Most individuals who commit terrorist acts these days tend to have clean records. The Taliban and IRA focused on recruiting the young and ideologically committed who did not have any previous ('lillywhites' was the IRA term). i.e precisely the sort of people who you would have had no reason to suspect would be terrorists and whose ID card applications and recorrded details would not merit a second glance. I'm interested to know precisely on what basis ID cards would 'help' in the fight against terrorism in the UK. Aside from the 'lillywhite' scenario above, ID cards are not going to stop a plane hi-jacked in the Middle East or in Europe. Not having a card is in all probability not going to stop an illegal immigrant terrorist doing his worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinkydevil Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 ID Cards swipped where you go. Car tracking devices to charge you on Roads. ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4610755.stm ) Tracing location through mobile phone (used in few cases now: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/3653715.stm ) 20-30yrs and I reckon they will be able to trace your every move and purchase down to a few metres. GPS is already small enough and by then will be in loads of items as standard. Ace! Edit: URL mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahc Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 If you were too drunk to remember where you lived you could give your ID card to a taxi driver, he could swipe it and take you home! Fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted June 30, 2005 Author Share Posted June 30, 2005 That'll be your Equifax rating. We've all got one. A girl I know was offered a job at Isle of Man Bank but had it withdrawn because she was a couple of weeks late on a monthly installment of a £300 catalogue balance. She's been told if the loan balance is paid off the next available job is hers. Most individuals who commit terrorist acts these days tend to have clean records. The Taliban and IRA focused on recruiting the young and ideologically committed who did not have any previous ('lillywhites' was the IRA term). i.e precisely the sort of people who you would have had no reason to suspect would be terrorists and whose ID card applications and recorrded details would not merit a second glance. I'm interested to know precisely on what basis ID cards would 'help' in the fight against terrorism in the UK. Aside from the 'lillywhite' scenario above, ID cards are not going to stop a plane hi-jacked in the Middle East or in Europe. Not having a card is in all probability not going to stop an illegal immigrant terrorist doing his worst. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know the Police in general would welcome them, illegal immigrants and all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-rhymes Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Wouldn't it be more effort for the police? With all the paper work and having to ask people to produce if they don't carry the things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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