quilp Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 The All Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) is lobbying to define 'islamophobia' and for the term to be made into law. The National Secular Society has other ideas... "The National Secular Society has urged the Home Secretary to resist calls to adopt a formal definition of 'islamophobia' which have been put forward by a parliamentary group. NSS chief Stephen Evans co-ordinated a letter to Sajid Javid on the subject after a high-profile report from the All Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) on British muslims. The APPG's report recommended that the Government define 'islamophobia' as a, "type of racism that targets expressions of 'muslimness' or 'perceived muslimness.' The NSS's letter has been co-signed by six other activists and a shortened version has been published in the Sunday Times. The letter called the APPG's definition, "vague and unworkable" and said it "conflates hatred of, and discrimination against muslims, with criticism of islam. "We believe that in a liberal, secular society individuals should be afforded respect and protection, we are clear that ideas should not." It said the phrase, "expressions of muslimness" could, "effectively be translated to mean islamic practices." At the report's launch its authors indicated that it was 'islamophobic' for inspectors from the education watchdog 'Ofsted' to even question why young girls were wearing hijab's in primary schools. The report also gave examples of speech which could be declared 'islamophobic' -- for example, the claim that 'muslim identity' has, "a unique propensity for terrorism." The APPG's report also outlined five 'tests' which would determine whether speech was 'islamophobic'. The NSS said these tests would "clearly render legitimate commentary and debate about islam (and by design muslims) beyond the bounds of reasonable public debate." The NSS letter said that currently, erroneous claims of 'islamophobia' have become, "a cover for prejudice and bigotry rather than tackling it." The signatories also said they were united by "their commitment to tackle anti-muslim bigotry coupled with their belief that the fundamental right to speak freely is precious and essential." The NSS submitted evidence to the APPG's inquiry on the matter, before its report was published. The APPG's report acknowledged the concerns raised by the NSS, along with the concerns of the Southall Black Sisters Group which campaigns for the rights of women from minority groups, but it (the APPG) based its conclusions on the interpretations of groups which claimed to represent the muslim 'community.' In the wake of the APPG's report, high-profile muslim groups have pushed the Government and major parties to adopt their definition(s). According to last week's 'Observer', Harun Khan, Secretary-General of the Muslim Council of Britain, has called upon politicians to "understand the importance of listening to communities" and adopt the definition(s). Yvette Cooper, the chair of the Home Affairs Select Committee, and the minister for 'faith', Lord Bourne, responded "enthusiastically" to the report at its launch. The Government has previously indicated that it does not intend to adopt a definition. In March, Home Office minister Victoria Atkins told the Commons that the Government does not accept the need for a definitive definition (take note: Thomas, C.). Explaining his decision to write and co-ordinate the letter, Stephen Evans said, "Racism, and anti-muslim bigotry need to be confronted, but proposals to promote the vague concept of 'islamophobia' seriously risk restricting public discussion and making matters worse." "People opposing gender segregation in schools, forced wearing of hijab's and the non-stun slaughtering of animals (let's include FGM, forced and child marriage, sharia law, immigration, women's rights, whether the illustrious mohammed was, in fact, a paedophile. Quilp.) have all been condemned as 'islamophobic' and it has become impossible to fight for any internal change in muslim communities without encountering the slur." "Prosecuting anti-muslim crimes and challenging bigoted attitudes towards muslims are both essential in a free society in which citizenship is open to those from all faiths and none, but rendering legitimate free-speech beyond the bounds of acceptable debate would be a major error." FULL TEXT OF LETTER... Dear Home Secretary, We are writing to you regarding the recent report from the APPG, on British muslims entitled, 'Islamophobia Defined.' We wish to highlight our concerns with the report and to urge the British Government to resist its proposal to adopt a definition of 'islamophobia.' Some of us also highlighted these concerns in written and oral submissions to the APPG inquiry into the matter. The report includes many examples of anti-muslim bigotry and hate-crimes, which should be universally condemned. However, the genuine problems identified in the report will only be exacerbated by adopting the vague and unworkable definition of 'islamophobia' it proposes. While we believe that in a liberal, secular society individuals should be afforded respect and protection, we are clear that ideas should not. We are concerned that the report's proposed definition of 'islamophobia' conflates hatred of, and discrimination against muslims, with criticism of islam. The report's core point is that the Government should make it policy to define 'islamophobia' as a type of racism that targets expressions of 'muslimness' or 'perceived muslimness' can effectively be translated to mean Islamic practices. In a society which is free and open, such practices must remain open to scrutiny and debate. Further, the report's backers are keen to stress the need to to avoid shutting-down criticism of religion. However, advancing the report's ill-defined concept of 'islamophobia' and aligning the five 'tests' it recommends to determine whether speech is 'islamophobic' will clearly render legitimate commentary and debate about islam beyond the bounds of reasonable public debate. Far from combatting prejudice and bigotry, erroneous claims of 'islamophobia' have become a cover for it. LGBT rights-campaigners have been called 'islamophobes' for criticising the views of muslim clerics on Homosexuality. Meanwhile, ex-muslims and feminist activists have been called 'islamophobes' for criticising certain islamic practices and views relating to women. Even liberal and secular muslims have been branded 'islamophobes and racists. While we respect a wide spectrum of beliefs, opinions and politics, the one thing that unites us is our commitment to tackle anti-muslim bigotry coupled with the belief that the fundamental right to speak freely is precious and essential. We therefore seek a meeting with you to further explain our concerns and to seek reassurances that the Government will not treat the Civil Liberties of British citizens as an afterthought in its efforts to tackle anti-muslim prejudice. Please do let us know if you would be open to doing so. Yours sincerely, Stephen Evans, Chief Executive, National Secular Society. Mohammed Amin MBE. Amina Lone, Co-director, Social Action and Research Foundation and women's rights campaigner. Maajid Nawas, Founder, Quilliam Foundation. Pragna Patel, Southall Black Sisters. Gita Sahgal, Centre For Secular Space. To me, it seems preposterous that such consideration and (undeserved) entitlement should be given to an ideology, especially those ideologies we perceive as religion. It just so happens that in this case it is islam and its adherents clamouring for such considerations and legal protection, thereby politicising and adding legitimacy to their cause. It matters not: the criticism would/should be the same whether it's christianity, Judaism or any other faith-based belief system seeking special treatment. But it's not. Does the UK need to take a step back and introduce what amounts to a reinstatement of blasphemy laws, where criticism and legitimate debate of religion becomes punishable again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Imagine being a 25 year old Muslim male from Wigan from Pakistani parents in today's society. A day trip to the British museum is probably really dangerous. There shouldn't be a need to define and legislate 'islamaphobia', but there probably is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushen Spy Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 59 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Imagine being a 25 year old Muslim male from Wigan from Pakistani parents in today's society. A day trip to the British museum is probably really dangerous. How so? Been there dozens and dozens of times; seen plenty of Pakistani British there and they didn't appear to be in any danger. And Quilp is right. This is a backhanded way of imposing Islamic blasphemy laws onto non-Muslims (and Muslims!) in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 The anti islamophobic laws should be set at exactly the same level as the anti anti semetic ones. You can't have equality otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 Which one is a race and which one is just a religion? Asking for a mate, an'that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 41 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: The anti islamophobic laws should be set at exactly the same level as the anti anti semetic ones. You can't have equality otherwise. I agree with that in principle. But there are specific behaviours that only become a problem when directed at one religion. Leaving bacon on the doorstep of a synagogue has different significance than it does at a church entrance during harvest festival. Also it would need to be framed in a way that allows criticism of a religion’s beliefs and practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushen Spy Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, the stinking enigma said: The anti islamophobic laws should be set at exactly the same level as the anti anti semetic ones. You can't have equality otherwise. Any special laws for either of them should be done away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 This world is just mad. Everything hinges on pretend people be they in the sky or wherever. What is wrong with our so called leaders ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted December 10, 2018 Author Share Posted December 10, 2018 What do you think is wrong, dilli..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 19 minutes ago, quilp said: What do you think is wrong, dilli..? That people give credence to religion in the first place. Secondly they encompass it in law. Then they argue who's pretend lord is more important. It is all bollocks. Anyway, it is Brian's birthday in just over two weeks so let's just be happy for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I would rather they drop RE from the school curriculum and replace the lesson with something more useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 36 minutes ago, Neil Down said: I would rather they drop RE from the school curriculum and replace the lesson with something more useful. Correct . Just who wants to be a "sunbeam" anyway ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, dilligaf said: Correct . Just who wants to be a "sunbeam" anyway ? You according to Jesus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Neil Down said: You according to Jesus... Well, I had a Sunbeam Sport. Now that was real. Not sure about this Jesus fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Religion is only as powerful as the man pulling the strings. The Greatest Story Ever Told, was maybe the best ever movie made. It brought men to tears, including me, and will never, ever be forgotten. The theme behind it was a load of tosh though. The power of movie directors is king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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