IOM property market vs UK over the years

[Sam]

Hello everyone,

                         As an outsider from the UK I fail to see why the property market and in particular the higher price market has been in the doldrums for about 10 years to a greater or lesser extent. Now I have read quite a bit  Money for your buck in the IOM you can get a LOT more one just needs to see the prices of similar places/locations in the UK in areas such as the New forrest , Ringwood, the areas of Southampton such as Chilworth and to lesser extent Basset  all of London, Brighton and Bristol, Lake district (and  other areas I'm sure). These areas actually sell yes the upper property bands in IOM are really struggling (above £400k if not mistaken?) I get there is local affordability and also know of the manx utility loan issue to the eating through reserves to the legacy pension funding question. But given the UK also has the affordability question for first time buyers (esp when london prices where soaring from 2010-2016) and there own set of problems such as £2 trillion i debt, spiralling crime of some kind or another. Not to mension HIGH taxes by comparrision with the IOM (for the elder generation above the exemption of £325k for single parents) 40% tax is taken when passed on to heirs to paying cgt with rates of 20-28% vs zilch for neither of those 2 things for the IOM not to mention income tax is 20% vs 45 (and 60% between 100k-125k) and IOM has next to no crime by comparison. Yet the Uk has shows such as 'Escape to the country' (pretty much everwhere in the iom would classify as that) where people generally speaking have budgets of and considerably above the price bracket struggling in iom). From what I have read even when the property market was BOOMING in iom it was not people from the UK or (anywhere else for that matter) that was doing the buying. From what I have read iom was boom town (not just property prices)  from the 70's through and until early/mid 90's  then ok until 2007 things have been sluggish again generally. Yet given IOM low population it really would not much of a % for the owner occupier retired generation to sell there inflated house in the locations mentioned to relocate to the IOM (after all unlike spain/other areas of europe the language is the same and currency) for pretty much all the prime properties to be sold. And yet in London prices while not soaring anymore are hardly going down anywhere near what IOM has had of late)

So is there anything I am missing I am as you can probably guess I am dumbstruck as to why property is struggling. 

All the best to you all

[The Duck of Atholl]

You are Tim Groves and I claim my £5

[Sam]

7 minutes ago, MrPB said:

It’s not rocket science. The average Manx salary is about £24,500 if I recall correctly. There are also very few jobs outside of government paying over £50K a year, and nobody is relocating here on massive salaries either as there aren’t that many big salary jobs being created so over £400k there are very few buyers because there are very few buyers whose wages support the buying of a £400k plus house. All the activity is at the bottom end of the market as that’s all the average person can afford. 

Well the avg salary even in london is 35k or even less depending on what you  read (and tax above the allowances would be 32% vs iom 10/20% on same salaries. Yet that has not made london go down all that much. Still find it curious no retiree from uk with there golden pensions of final salary schemes etc do not relocate at least in some numbers (baring in mind the escape to the country shows which is not the ones specialising in the warmer climes (A place in the sun is the show that). +unlike uk with the gifting rules I would imagine the bank of mom and dad exists (And more so than UK). But thank you for getting back to me. Plus

 

to the other poster *sigh* no I am not he of black grace cowley estate agent. 

[Sam]

8 minutes ago, MrPB said:

London prices are massively skewed by overseas buyers and of course the job situation in London is plentiful unlike here. Plenty of people earning £100k in the city and the wider economy (unlike here). The IOM is a low skill, low wage, poor quality back office centre first and foremost. We simply don’t have many buyers at that level of the market and that’s it. London does. 

Thanks again. But i disagree even in the CITY of london (ie no london it self ) the avg salary is only £48kish so aint all that many earning over 100k). I still don't get why people that are retired whom are staying put in the UK dont relocate I mean surely the quality of life  has to be better surrounded by country and sea. With what you say lord knows what made property soar in the IOM up and until 2007).

All the best

[The Phantom]

27 minutes ago, MrPB said:

There are also very few jobs outside of government paying over £50K a year, and nobody is relocating here on massive salaries either as there aren’t that many big salary jobs being created 

Did you get this the wrong way round?

I'd say most of the govt workers are on less than £50K.  Obviously not the Politicians or 'Consultants', but the admin staff (teachers, nurses, road workers etc which would surely make up the bulk of the Govt workers). 

Most of the jobs for educated and qualified workers in the private sector by the time of middle age would be definitely around the £50k mark - fully qualified accountant with a few years post qualification experience would be aiming for around this and we are actively trying bring more of them here due to a shortage. 

Same goes for anyone with genuine software/gaming expertise. 

In response to Sam's query, certainly up around Mt Murray where the houses are in the 300 - 500 region, they seem to be shifting pretty quickly. 

[Sam]

1 minute ago, MrPB said:

But you do understand the concept of supply and demand? These houses that aren’t selling aren’t selling for a reason. That reason is that there are no buyers fir them otherwise they’d be sold. Why would a retiree retire here? No reciprocal pension or healthcare provision here now. Widespread public concern over health and social services. Expensive air and sea links. Expensive utility costs. 

Yeah I get supply and demand. But there seems to be no shortage of people buying places in the country in the UK.  Expensive utility bills? Given the property rates inc the water water could be said to be lower. Others I cant believe is out of step with the Uk (with europe absolutely thats possible). Now I am not saying everyone has to relocate but goodness knows just a few thousand doing so would mean pretty much all the prime price iom properties would be sold so hardly asking for a high %.. As for healthcare (if not social care) its the same as UK and even the associated concerns.

[The Phantom]

1 minute ago, MrPB said:

No you are wrong there was a survey on it a few years back which showed that more £50k plus posts existed inside IOMG than in the private sector. 

Yeah sorry, going to call bullshit on that one.  

Show me the survey with confirmation that it was a genuine cross section of the population.   S

 

[Declan]

3 minutes ago, Sam said:

Thanks again. But i disagree even in the CITY of london (ie no london it self ) the avg salary is only £48kish so aint all that many earning over 100k). I still don't get why people that are retired whom are staying put in the UK dont relocate I mean surely the quality of life  has to be better surrounded by country and sea. With what you say lord knows what made property soar in the IOM up and until 2007).

All the best

I can't understand why anyone with no connection to the place would relocate here. Sure the seaside villages are nice, but the town is a bombsite, inland the countryside is unremarkable and most of the villages are like something from the Village of the Damned. 

The local culture is great, but unless you've been immersed in it for many years, your only ever going to be a tourist. 

There really is only reason to relocate here and that is for work that you find challenging. 

I can't understand why anyone would retire here - away from friends, family and familiar places, which probably explains why those that do retire here are oddball scum who's aim in life is to turn the Island into the mythical England from their psychopathic fantasies. 

[Sam]

1 minute ago, Declan said:

I can't understand why anyone with no connection to the place would relocate here. Sure the seaside villages are nice, but the town is a bombsite, inland the countryside is unremarkable and most of the villages are like something from the Village of the Damned. 

The local culture is great, but unless you've been immersed in it for many years, your only ever going to be a tourist. 

There really is only reason to relocate here and that is for work that you find challenging. 

I can't understand why anyone would retire here - away from friends, family and familiar places, which probably explains why those that do retire here are oddball scum who's aim in life is to turn the Island into the mythical England from their psychopathic fantasies. 

Well I have not seen everywhere on the iom but the state of the roads seems if anything better than the UK'.(at least using google street view) . The countryside can be compared with the UK for good or bad. Well your point about being away from family is a point but the same applies for the masses of 'expat' brits who choose to do that but other places. For eg I know of 1 person who thought what a lark it would be to retire to 'New Jersey for goodness sake. But thank you for the Village of the Damned bit was comical reading it. Reading the negativity its staggering that the property market went up until 2007. 

[Declan]

4 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

Yeah sorry, going to call bullshit on that one.  

Show me the survey with confirmation that it was a genuine cross section of the population.   S

 

https://www.gov.im/media/1365784/2019-02-13-earnings-survey-2018-report.pdf

2019's isn't out yet but, see table 11. 

Doesn't quite answer your question, but if you that bothered a freedom of info request asking for a variation on  table 3 but with the population split between public and provate sector. 

(Interesting that Men in the Public Sector are better paid than private sector, but not woman.) 

[Sam]

1 minute ago, MrPB said:

It isn’t as there was a high level of expatriation to the IOM from people in a healthy salary bracket at that stage. That is not happening now. Supply and demand as above. It’s a simple concept to grasp. 

That really helps because I read 3 different articles (2 from estate agents) saying even when the prop market was booming next to none of it was due to the 'come overs' as people call people relocating.

[Sam]

6 minutes ago, MrPB said:

It isn’t as there was a high level of expatriation to the IOM from people in a healthy salary bracket at that stage. That is not happening now. Supply and demand as above. It’s a simple concept to grasp. 

After all I have seen but one episode of those property shows that featured a IOM property in all these years. Wonder why people stopped relocating and for all the problems the iom has (already outlined) those things apply a great deal to the uk (And europe) yet I dont see all that many london retired home owners selling up thinking the uk has had it (which increasingly I think it has with the population had it with 'Austerity' that never even happened. 

 

All the best

[The Phantom]

Yeah Sam, you'll find a lot of negativity here! 

Admittedly the government are mostly a bunch of taxi drivers and chimney sweep schmucks that don't have a clue what they are doing. 

But the rest of the Island is great.  

I'm not entirely sure why most of the posters are still here (you'll actually find that a lot of them aren't).

But in relation to your property query, it is a bit of a mystery.  Up until around 2007 there was a significant over inflated bubble.  But that then seemed to correct itself. 

In my experience, houses that stay on the market at whatever price are unrealistically priced and/or require updating.   I purchased a house last year for just over £400k and was looking for ages.  Anything that came up at that price that was reasonable and justifiable went very quickly (often within a couple of days). 

I think that houses in that price region appeal to a demographic that wants something new and shiny, well decorated modern etc.  The new builds in this price region seem to go quite quickly.  

[Phillip Dearden]

1 hour ago, Sam said:

Hello everyone,

                         As an outsider from the UK I fail to see why the property market and in particular the higher price market has been in the doldrums for about 10 years to a greater or lesser extent. ...

So is there anything I am missing I am as you can probably guess I am dumbstruck as to why property is struggling. 

 

Have you looked at real data?

Average transaction value and volumes of sales have been steadily increasing over the period you mention.

 

[GD4ELI]

IMO the main reason people don't retire or even return to the IOM is family. I'm 62 now, friends from the IOM who worked in the UK are staying put as they have children & grandchildren there.

I live in a retirement area south-west of Falmouth, even though family may be 4 or even 8 hours away it's an easy drive. Falmouth & Douglas are the same size, Falmouth's a very nice town, Douglas is a dump.

ETA: 30-odd years ago Douglas was indeed a nice town...