woolley Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, P.K. said: And it's blindingly obvious that the Minister is right on top of the situation to wit: "We are not distributing that at the moment because we have to distribute it at the right time." Very reassuring wouldn't you say...? Right. That seems fair enough but when the order came to distribute nothing happened. See my earlier post re incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, woolley said: Right. That seems fair enough but when the order came to distribute nothing happened. See my earlier post re incompetence. Yes, I saw your post of assumptions of incompetence but I failed to see what relevance it had vis-a-vis the Minister stockpiling as opposed to getting the PPE to point of need in a timely manner. After all, it isn't doing anyone any good stuck in a warehouse now is it.... So what is the connection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, P.K. said: Yes, I saw your post of assumptions of incompetence but I failed to see what relevance it had vis-a-vis the Minister stockpiling as opposed to getting the PPE to point of need in a timely manner. After all, it isn't doing anyone any good stuck in a warehouse now is it.... So what is the connection? Well, so that you send the supplies you have to where they are needed when they are needed, as you say, in a timely manner. That doesn't mean sending stuff before you know where it's needed because that way you will find you've sent the supplies to A when the shortage turns out to be at B. This is mundane operational stuff, not even a political matter. I suppose they just took the permanent secretary's word it was all in hand but reckoned without the cackhanded way that the management cock everything up. Do you suggest the Minister should drive around there with a truck and make the deliveries personally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 49 minutes ago, woolley said: Well, so that you send the supplies you have to where they are needed when they are needed, as you say, in a timely manner. That doesn't mean sending stuff before you know where it's needed because that way you will find you've sent the supplies to A when the shortage turns out to be at B. This is mundane operational stuff, not even a political matter. I suppose they just took the permanent secretary's word it was all in hand but reckoned without the cackhanded way that the management cock everything up. Do you suggest the Minister should drive around there with a truck and make the deliveries personally? Yes it's just a bog-standard logistical exercise. However it's not a case of sending it to A when the shortage turns out to be B. It's not sending it anywhere in a timely manner so the shortage ends up in A to Z! As we have heard on our news bulletins day in day out for how long?. This is despite the Minister, with whom the ultimate responsibility lies, acting as though everything was under control. Which time has shown to be total bollox. But for some strange reason the Minister doesn't seem to be taking any responsibility for this. Just vague allusions that there is plenty available. Only no-one knows where. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that not only was the system not stress-tested prior to the event, a major failing in itself, but the equipment was being husbanded probably due to a shortage that has caused consternation and casualties among the service that we are all so heavily reliant upon. After all, it's no good stuck in a warehouse now is it... When the orders from above are fucking useless it's no good blaming the troops, as you have shown you have a propensity to do based on fuck-all.... The ultimate responsibility lies with the Minister - heaven help us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 20 minutes ago, P.K. said: The ultimate responsibility lies with the Minister - heaven help us... Yes, it does politically, but as often is the case, it doesn't matter who the minister is if the system is flabby and inefficient. The job doesn't get done. This would be exactly the same even if you were the politician in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, woolley said: Yes, it does politically, but as often is the case, it doesn't matter who the minister is if the system is flabby and inefficient. The job doesn't get done. This would be exactly the same even if you were the politician in charge. No Woolster. Not "politically". Don't try and play that game. It was Hancock's decisions. He made them. He fucked them up. Fail. If it wasn't so serious it would be laughable that Hancock's failure to protect NHS staff has led to forcing the gov into the testing of NHS staff because so many are absent. Not something they wanted to do because they are so short of testing facilities. But hey, it's just another fuck-up in a litany of incompetence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 28 minutes ago, P.K. said: No Woolster. Not "politically". Don't try and play that game. It was Hancock's decisions. He made them. He fucked them up. Fail. If it wasn't so serious it would be laughable that Hancock's failure to protect NHS staff has led to forcing the gov into the testing of NHS staff because so many are absent. Not something they wanted to do because they are so short of testing facilities. But hey, it's just another fuck-up in a litany of incompetence... OK. I have tried to reason with you about policy and failings in a non-partisan way but you cannot see past blind hatred of the current UK government. That's me out of arguing with you for good. No doubt others will be relieved that there will be no more circular spats between us. Ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 52 minutes ago, woolley said: OK. I have tried to reason with you about policy and failings in a non-partisan way but you cannot see past blind hatred of the current UK government. That's me out of arguing with you for good. No doubt others will be relieved that there will be no more circular spats between us. Ever. Saved for posterity... 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 (edited) Hancock is an odious specimen, but he has been in that job less than two years, and that time will have been mostly spent on brexit, debating and scrutinising laws, fighting elections, constituency matters, a short-lived leadership campaign, official functions and media engagements. PK, all that is normal and as it should be. You really wouldn’t want politicians overseeing day to day operations, or worse, trying to direct policy - Gove tried that in his early days at education and made a right cock-up. The minister should question major decisions though - like not distributing PPE promptly, but who knows how well he was at the time. Edited April 3, 2020 by Freggyragh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 13 hours ago, Rog said: Underfunding of the NHS? Having to implement a get well austerity program after the profligacy of the Blair & Brown disaster trying to minimise the increase in National debt made all government expenditure more than problematic, not to mention the Blair open border policy and the huge draw on our taxes. 1. What do you think is going to happen to public spending once all the current Government initiatives around supporting (rightly so) people through this public health crisis? We will once again revert to austerity and the poorest in society will suffer once again. 2. Has Johnson or any of his cabal bothered to close the UK borders yet? Even the IOM Government have shut the borders. The only reason that international travel in and out of the UK is reducing is because airlines are cancelling flights. Priti Patel has been calling for the UK borders to be closed but they still remain open. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 7 hours ago, quilp said: Saved for posterity... Well I ain't gonna be deleting the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: 1. What do you think is going to happen to public spending once all the current Government initiatives around supporting (rightly so) people through this public health crisis? We will once again revert to austerity and the poorest in society will suffer once again. 2. Has Johnson or any of his cabal bothered to close the UK borders yet? Even the IOM Government have shut the borders. The only reason that international travel in and out of the UK is reducing is because airlines are cancelling flights. Priti Patel has been calling for the UK borders to be closed but they still remain open. Are there any means to travel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 14 minutes ago, woolley said: Are there any means to travel? (This is not a smartass response - it's a good question). Have a look at: https://www.flightradar24.com/51.66,-2.67/8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 3, 2020 Author Share Posted April 3, 2020 13 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: 1. What do you think is going to happen to public spending once all the current Government initiatives around supporting (rightly so) people through this public health crisis? We will once again revert to austerity and the poorest in society will suffer once again. 2. Has Johnson or any of his cabal bothered to close the UK borders yet? Even the IOM Government have shut the borders. The only reason that international travel in and out of the UK is reducing is because airlines are cancelling flights. Priti Patel has been calling for the UK borders to be closed but they still remain open. There will have to an austerity program that will shock people to the core. Not just cut back in government spending but a much needed reassessment of the whole welfare state and what it provides. Some days ago I mentioned the social impact of the Black Death on the whole nature of British --- well everything and especially the collapse of feudalism. This Kung Flu plague will have the same devastating effect on the West and especially England. One thing is absolutely certain, our standard of living is going to fall for everybody and what support to the lower social orders is provided will reduce to essential needs only. As for what HMG has or has not done, that is immaterial, it was based on best scientific knowledge available and still is. No point dwelling on it, what matters now is what happens in the future and if, note IF a vaccine can be developed because that is far from certain. Look at the common cold for example, or common or garden 'flu. That requires a new vaccine each year or so as the beast mutates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rog said: There will have to an austerity program that will shock people to the core. Not just cut back in government spending but a much needed reassessment of the whole welfare state and what it provides. Some days ago I mentioned the social impact of the Black Death on the whole nature of British --- well everything and especially the collapse of feudalism. This Kung Flu plague will have the same devastating effect on the West and especially England. One thing is absolutely certain, our standard of living is going to fall for everybody and what support to the lower social orders is provided will reduce to essential needs only. As for what HMG has or has not done, that is immaterial, it was based on best scientific knowledge available and still is. No point dwelling on it, what matters now is what happens in the future and if, note IF a vaccine can be developed because that is far from certain. Look at the common cold for example, or common or garden 'flu. That requires a new vaccine each year or so as the beast mutates. ^ the voice of doom - crackling in through the ether. Fading in and out. By contrast - I'm expecting a quick recovery and a boom when this thing is snuffed-out. Innovation driven and partly funded by increased liquidity. And a new belief in the value of core services and the people who keep them running. We will come out of this stronger. Edited April 3, 2020 by pongo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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