Mec Vannin

[ButterflyMaiden]

What is this Manx culture, apart from the Manx language and a pocket full of national stereotypes?

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An astute question. Maybe someone would be interested in a brainstorming session to tease out the answers.

Upside would be the promise of getting answers.

Downside would be first .. only Manx born people to participate

second .. need to allow participants opportunity to say their piece evn if you think it nonsense .... why dont you go for it ..I think it would be interesting.

[TheScope]

I'm as manx as anyone (surname to prove it yessir) , but TBH I dont feel any sense of national identity other than British...

[Lonan3]

I don't normally feel any need to proclaim my 'Manxness' - it is inherent and a part of my character.

When I talk to people who admire our beautiful island - a very frequent event - I tend to swell with pride, almost as if I'm solely responsible for it!

Being a part of it, I feel free to criticise the things that are wrong - but I'm ready to defend it to the death when people from elsewhere offer unjustified criticism!

After well over half a century of living here, I can still be surprised by it's beauty, can still find unexpected scenes that simply take my breath away, and can even find time to admire the sheer bloddy-mindedness that is probably the most obvious and widespread characteristic of our people.

I also particularly love the way that those who arrive here are absorbed into our culture - they start off living out of town and journeying to work, satisfied because its so much easier than they're used to but, within a few years, are wanting to move nearer to town because its such a long way to go every day!

While we all like a good moan, I think its important to retain a sense of perspective. The island is a beautiful place. The problems that we 'endure' are as nothing compared to most parts of the world (or even the UK!) and the things we perceive to be crises would be regarded as little more than inconveniences in most places.

Yes, unashamedly, I love the Isle of Man - and I am proud to say that I'm Manx.

I don't even mind (too much) when people call me 'British' because that is a kind of 'secondary' nationality.

[Gladys]

Well said Lonan!!

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Posted in error

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Yes it is a very good question and has got me thinking. Not really sure what exactly Manx culture actually is, I certainly don't think it is anything much removed from English culture. I think the Manx have nowadays have more in common with the English than the other celtic nations. English cultural values seem to have overtaken almost all of the old idiosyncrasies that used to abound on the island.

 

The Manx have their own institutions, a dead language that is curiously being reborn, some still have the indigenous accent and other than the Island's own way of life but I don't know what else could count for a Manx culture. Maybe that is all it is.

 

It feels like a bit of a bit of a contradiction for me as I cannot deny my own nationalist feelings towards being Manx as much as they don't make much sense as I can't say I feel a lot more affiliation towards other Manx people I don't know than any English person. I don't know if I feel proud to be Manx at all, I don't really like the idea. There are lots of things about the Island I am interested in and it is where my roots are but I don't feel much pride in the Island and everything Manx when I'm there. The government is certainly not anything to be proud of, nor the fact that the Island is nothing more than a tinpot tax haven. If it is enough to be proud of the fact that the Island is wealthy and the Manx aren't English?

[Snaipyr]

The Manx have their own institutions, a dead language that is curiously being reborn, some still have the indigenous accent and other than the Island's own way of life but I don't know what else could count for a Manx culture.  Maybe that is all it is. 

 

 

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The language never died! At the time of Ned Maddrell's death in the 1970's there were already those that had learnt Manx from him and other old 'native speakers' - ie those for whom it was their first language.

 

I don't think it 'curious' to want to revive the gaelic and increase the number of speakers. It's a badge of identity and something to be proud of - as is the traditional music and dance. They, too, count as out 'culture' and the many people who speak Manx, play the music and dance the dances are helping to preserve our UNIQUE Celtic culture.

[ButterflyMaiden]

The language never died!  At the time of Ned Maddrell's death in the 1970's there were already those that had learnt Manx from him and other old 'native speakers' - ie those for whom it was their first language.

I don't think it 'curious' to want to revive the gaelic and increase the number of speakers.  It's a badge of identity and something to be proud of - as is the traditional music and dance.  They, too, count as out 'culture'  and the many people who speak Manx, play the music and dance the dances are helping to preserve our UNIQUE Celtic culture.

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It certainly isnt curious to aspire to increasing the number of gaelic speakers.

I would say it is a laudable aim.

However its a moot point as to whether the ability to speak Manx or not would either enhance or detract from your identity as a Manx person.

The human species has prospered not least because of its ability as toolmakers. In that context, language is just another tool ..a communication tool. In my opinion, people such as yourself, who are undoubtedly Manx, would still be Manx no matter what language you chose to communicate with. Perhaps I could make the point by arguing it would be possible for an English person such as myself to learn Manx and use it as my only language. It would not make me Manx !

Similarly, if, for entirely practical reasons, Manx people use another language for communication purposes, it does not detract from their Manx identity.

[Lonan3]

I've no problem with people learning to speak Manx - as long as they don't try to use it exclude others as often happens in places in Wales! Living preservation of languages is fine, but English remains the common factor in terms of business etc and I would also dearly love to see more attention given to using it properly.

[Snaipyr]

I've no problem with people learning to speak Manx - as long as they don't try to use it exclude others as often happens in places in Wales!  Living preservation of languages is fine, but English remains the common factor in terms of business etc and I would also dearly love to see more attention given to using it properly.

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They Welsh are merely talking in their own language - why should they switch to English to please you? Same goes for Irish, Manx and Scottish gaelic speakers.

 

I agree English is the language of business but I'd like to see more attention given to promoting and preserving the Manx/English dialect too - especially by Manx Radio.

[P.K.]

They Welsh are merely talking in their own language - why should they switch to English to please you?

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I have been in a shop in South Wales where they were all speaking English. As soon as I asked for something in English they all switched to Welsh. They did it with the deliberate intent to exclude me. However to gain my business they HAD to communicate with me using English which just goes to show what tiny minds some folks have when it comes to this issue.

 

I agree with ButterflyMaiden. I'm Manx. Speaking Manx Gaelic won't alter my nationality one jot.

 

It's interesting to me that a lot on here complain about how ethnic minorities seem to have far more rights in the UK than the "English" for want of a better word. Yet the speech at Tynwald is read out in English which is understood by all and then Gaelic which is understood by only a small number. That smacks to me of pandering to a minority. Unless, of course, it's seen by Mec Vannin as making some kind of pathetic statement but they're much bigger than that surely?

[Politician]

To me, delivering the Tynwald speech in both languages is a welcome nod to tradition.

 

The problem comes when a minority local language starts costing the taxpayer large sums of money. This has happened in Wales, where all government advertising is in both languages - doubling the size of each advertisement, and hence the cost.

 

Since the majority of Welsh people do not speak any Welsh, and far as I am aware no Welsh people are incapable of understanding English, the point of the extra expenditure eludes me. Preserving tradition and local differences is obviously a good thing - but at what cost?

[alriteyessir]

Its been read out in manx for over a thousand years, Its a fine tradition so here's to the next thousand

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Well I would agree with that Butterfly Maiden. I certainly think that whether I speak Manx or not it doesn't make a difference whether I speak Manx or not.

 

What I mean by thinking it curious is that the language has died out. Nobody speaks ONLY Manx and very few are fluent and it is only quite recently that there is such a drive behind teaching it in schools. It is my curiosity of why now there is such much enthusiasm behind it. I don't think it is necessarily preservation of the language but the language has stopped being used in anything but street names and tynwald. I don't think there is anything reason why not be taught it.

 

Manx identity means something different to everyone. We certainly can't turn back the clock and bring the Manxness of the past; the way in which people used the language and the idiosyncrasies of old. A lot has been lost over time though luckily preserved in books but it just feels to me a 'hollow' to people speak a smattering of language when the context in which it was taught is not known i.e. the history of the island.

[celtic]

Well I would agree with that Butterfly Maiden.  I certainly think that whether I speak Manx or not it doesn't make a difference whether I speak Manx or not.

 

What I mean by thinking it curious is that the language has died out.  Nobody speaks ONLY Manx and very few are fluent and it is only quite recently that there is such a drive behind teaching it in schools.  It is my curiosity of why now there is such much enthusiasm behind it.  I don't think it is necessarily preservation of the language but the language has stopped being used in anything but street names and tynwald.  I don't think there is anything reason why not be taught it.

 

Manx identity means something different to everyone.  We certainly can't turn back the clock and bring the Manxness of the past; the way in which people used the language and the idiosyncrasies of old.  A lot has been lost over time though luckily preserved in books but it just feels to me a 'hollow' to people speak a smattering of language when the context in which it was taught is not known i.e. the history of the island.

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Very well put. Perhaps it would be better if the Manx Culturalists spent more time in the modern High tech world and campaigned for all that live on this Island to have the proper wealth sharing from an economic boom that is at present not shared equally.