hissingsid Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 So users of Manx Gas are getting a rebate of at least £58, well done and quite right ,but in return Manx Gas are making a reduced payment to the Government of 1.4 million pounds, they pay for infrastructure use or something, is this just for this year or for future years. It does not seem like much of a deal to me. Ms Cox is delighted and has enjoyed working with the Government in this matter……that says it all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, hissingsid said: So users of Manx Gas are getting a rebate of at least £58, well done and quite right ,but in return Manx Gas are making a reduced payment to the Government of 1.4 million pounds, they pay for infrastructure use or something, is this just for this year or for future years. It does not seem like much of a deal to me. Ms Cox is delighted and has enjoyed working with the Government in this matter……that says it all. I get the impression a lot of exterior companies "enjoy" working with the Government, the taxpayers not so much ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 Yes, according to Manx Radio it is 1.4 million each year. I find this totally unbelievable as I think the rebate is a one off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 27 minutes ago, asitis said: I get the impression a lot of exterior companies "enjoy" working with the Government, the taxpayers not so much ! I bet the contractors working on the new Liverpool Landing Stage enjoy working with IOMG. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 Ms Cox is a hard nosed business woman whose company buys companies and sells them that is what they do. What chance do our wet behind the ears MHKs and self serving civil servants have against these professionals, none , is the stern reply. 7 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 Strangely enough Rob has done a blog on this 🤪 he is really pleased the Government has screwed a rebate from Manx Gas, at last, my words not his, however he failed to mention the bit about the deal with the annual 1.4 million. I am going back on FB to check on that but I think I am right. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Whilst it's not to be sneezed at, I doubt if a £58 rebate will amount to much in the face of the recent 27% rise in gas price. In one hand and back out the other. This "deal" re. the infrastructure - why? What has MG done to deserve a cut in fees for infrastructure use? It sounds like a sweetener to me and let's hope that MG haven't had the CURA chaps over the same barrel that they used for the last regulatory agreement. Somebody needs to comb the fine print, if it's ever made public. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, hissingsid said: So users of Manx Gas are getting a rebate of at least £58, well done and quite right ,but in return Manx Gas are making a reduced payment to the Government of 1.4 million pounds, they pay for infrastructure use or something, is this just for this year or for future years. It does not seem like much of a deal to me. Ms Cox is delighted and has enjoyed working with the Government in this matter……that says it all. The payment Manx Gas make to MUA to pass through to Treasury for use of the on-Island gas network has reduced from just over £1.2 million per year to just over £0.5 million per year, a reduction in the interest rate in the multi-year lease from 6% per year to 2% per year. This reduction is ongoing so will continue to benefit gas customers. This £58 rebate is a single fixed-amount rebate to all gas tariff customers for the calendar years 2020 and 2021, and was arranged as the Isle of Man Government's contribution to the rebate 'promised' by Manx Gas and Government if a voluntary gas agreement was put in place. It was not of course and we now have statutory economic regulation of gas. Effectively it is the total of two years of that interest reduction divided equally between gas tariff customers. The £58 will be a huge proportion of the gas bill of the smallest user, perhaps even a refund, but a tiny proportion of the largest tariff customer users' bills. Non-tariff customers do not get the rebate. That's my understanding, and I have played important role through motions and questions to get this rebate. Hope helpful? Edited December 21, 2021 by Chris Thomas 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 hour ago, hissingsid said: Yes, according to Manx Radio it is 1.4 million each year. I find this totally unbelievable as I think the rebate is a one off. Around £700,000 each year, not £1.4 million. A Keys question which I asked to chair MUA a month or so ago is background and trigger for this rebate now. Council of Ministers made the decision to reduce the interest on the gas network extension lease from 6% per year to the normal consolidated loans fund rate of 2% per year in July 2020 and also agreed to backdate change to 1st January 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: This "deal" re. the infrastructure - why? What has MG done to deserve a cut in fees for infrastructure use? It sounds like a sweetener to me and let's hope that MG haven't had the CURA chaps over the same barrel that they used for the last regulatory agreement. Somebody needs to comb the fine print, if it's ever made public. It's not really 'fees', rather the interest rate in lease. In 2011/12 Manx Gas agreed to pay 6% per year for the gas network extension when MEA, for instance, was paying 0% per year on its consolidated loans fund borrowing. The change is to bring gas customers to the same financing rate as, for instance, electricity customers. CURA will have had very little to do with this change. Of course Manx Gas costs now reduce which CURA will see. The real counterparts are Treasury and Manx Gas, with MUA as the intermediary for cash flows; but I doubt MUA was involved very much in arrangements as lease money is received by Treasury and rebate is paid to gas customers by Manx Gas. Edited December 21, 2021 by Chris Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, hissingsid said: Ms Cox is a hard nosed business woman whose company buys companies and sells them that is what they do. What chance do our wet behind the ears MHKs and self serving civil servants have against these professionals, none , is the stern reply. More completely Manx Gas is an Isle of Man public gas supplier, and is the major part of a group that supplies natural gas here, and LPG here and in the Channel Islands. Its shareholder is an infrastructure investor, Ancala Partners. I would contend that the real narrative for gas regulation since 2017 is not at all what you suggest and is a success for public policy here. For instance in recent years: Banded standing charges were abolished; Statutory economic regulation of the gas natural monopoly has been introduced and the remit of the Communications Commission has been extended as it became the Communications and Utilities Regulatory Authority, the Island's professional and de-politicized economic regulator; The return on capital employed in wholesale gas provision seems likely to perhaps halve from the guaranteed 9.99% per year which was prescribed in the flawed 2015 gas agreement until 2020, and the accounting for intragroup activity and investments is being brought into line with standard practices; and From 1st January 2020 the loan interest rate on the lease for Manx Gas is now in line with state loans for other utilities and infrastructure. Edited December 21, 2021 by Chris Thomas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Do we have any firm agreement to ensure that reductions/savings to MG will be passed on to the end customers, please Chris? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Thomas Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Do we have any firm agreement to ensure that reductions/savings to MG will be passed on to the end customers, please Chris? Yes. All agreed and Government and Manx Gas issued a joint press release Isle of Man Government - Rebate for gas customers following loan adjustment by Isle of Man Government. 2020/2021 rebate of £58 will be paid with bills from February 2022 onwards. Manx Gas's accounting year starts on 1st January and from this New Year Manx Gas costs will have been reduced by around £700,000 per year because of this particular lease interest rate reduction. CURA will see those reduced costs in Manx Gas accounts and will take them into account when it fixes price cap or regulates otherwise. Edited December 21, 2021 by Chris Thomas 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Well, we know where Chris is going to work when he loses his seat!!! Just joking, just joking!!!!!!! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hissingsid Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 So why is it being reported as 1.5 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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