TT 2023

[Ativa]

I do think people are downplaying the popularity of the event, and it’s confusing me because I must move in very different circles to some of you.

A motoring forum infrequent is full of posts from people asking about accommodation, where to watch and others talking about coming for the umpteenth time.

The vehicle specific sections of the same forum contain posts from owners clubs and people just wanting to visit the island and drive the roads in their own time.

TT 2023 build up videos have hundreds of thousands  of views on YouTube.

Previous years videos have tens of not hundreds of millions of views.

TT reaction videos are hugely popular and their are hundreds if not thousands of them from people all over the globe.

The upcoming computer game (which looks superb after the first two were a bit shit) preview videos have hundreds of thousands of views and it’s not even out yet.

I do quite a bit of online racing on driving simulators.  Loads of people from all over the world see the Manx flag and either talk to me about their visit, or how they have seen it on TV and want to come.

I am only a couple of weeks back from a business trip to Barcelona.  The guy checking me in wants to come and we exchanged email addresses 

I am astounded that more of you don’t get asked about the event and come into contact with fans.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Ativa

[Max Power]

5 hours ago, HeliX said:

Oh to have such confidence to use words with such willfull disregard for their meanings.

I am quite confident that socialism is a destructive force, although social policies are vital.   

[A fool and his money.....]

13 hours ago, wrighty said:

I’ve been here for almost 20, and in that time TT’s future has seemed to become less secure. Age profile of fans and racers, Marshals, Insurance, lack of tolerance of the inevitable deaths and injuries…

What hasn’t changed in my time here is the stuck in history local fans who believe it will go on for ever and no changes are required to try to secure its future. 

The event has changed and continues to change, beyond all recognition in my life time alone.

I think many come-overs are very dismissive of anything Manx, aided by some Manx people who agree with them, and let's be honest, our government facilitate this on many levels. But the TT, whatever you think of it, is the mother of all Manx success stories. The TT is a huge part of the heritage, culture and folklore of not just the island but of motorcycling itself. It's a truly remarkable feat for an island the size of ours to maintain a world recognised presence in a sport for well over a hundred years, and to be honest I think this irks some incomers whose egos like to tell them their presence is of vital importance on an island of local yokels who aren't very bright or worldly.

Yes demographics have changed, this is true of motorcycling rather than just the TT. The TT has always appealed to real world bikers and bike manufacturers being based as it is on production machinery - bikers are older, there as fewer commuters and many more leisure riders (an expensive hobby), decades of functional Japanese dominance is over, cheap reliability and practicality now comes below style and comfort ( reflected by BMW's recent success on the mountain course).

A good barometer for the TT whose popularity has ebbed and flowed over the past 50 years since the world championship era, has always been UK motorcycle sales which are continuing their upward trajectory despite cost of living pressures, and there's no reason why a well managed and progessive TT cannot continue well into the future, despite the inevitable doom mongering of the constant influx of new residents who will no doubt continue to believe that Manx history began the day they stepped off the boat.

[HeliX]

2 hours ago, Max Power said:

I am quite confident that socialism is a destructive force, although social policies are vital.   

It isn't, but even if it were, what we are seeing in our Government and the UK Government is pretty opposite to socialism.

[Happier diner]

14 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

The event has changed and continues to change, beyond all recognition in my life time alone.

I think many come-overs are very dismissive of anything Manx, aided by some Manx people who agree with them, and let's be honest, our government facilitate this on many levels. But the TT, whatever you think of it, is the mother of all Manx success stories. The TT is a huge part of the heritage, culture and folklore of not just the island but of motorcycling itself. It's a truly remarkable feat for an island the size of ours to maintain a world recognised presence in a sport for well over a hundred years, and to be honest I think this irks some incomers whose egos like to tell them their presence is of vital importance on an island of local yokels who aren't very bright or worldly.

Yes demographics have changed, this is true of motorcycling rather than just the TT. The TT has always appealed to real world bikers and bike manufacturers being based as it is on production machinery - bikers are older, there as fewer commuters and many more leisure riders (an expensive hobby), decades of functional Japanese dominance is over, cheap reliability and practicality now comes below style and comfort ( reflected by BMW's recent success on the mountain course).

A good barometer for the TT whose popularity has ebbed and flowed over the past 50 years since the world championship era, has always been UK motorcycle sales which are continuing their upward trajectory despite cost of living pressures, and there's no reason why a well managed and progessive TT cannot continue well into the future, despite the inevitable doom mongering of the constant influx of new residents who will no doubt continue to believe that Manx history began the day they stepped off the boat.

What makes you think it's anything at all to do with comeovers? That's a genuine question. I honestly don't think it is. There's plenty of manxies who would be happy to see it go.

It kind of weakens your arguement. You act like it's all someone else's fault. That seems to be easier for you than discussing the actual issues 

[A fool and his money.....]

12 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

What makes you think it's anything at all to do with comeovers? That's a genuine question. I honestly don't think it is. There's plenty of manxies who would be happy to see it go.

It kind of weakens your arguement. You act like it's all someone else's fault. That seems to be easier for you than discussing the actual issues 

Observation. Yes there are Manxies who don't like it but they are undoubtedly in the minority. I think come-overs with the same view are too TBH, many love it, some are only here because of it.

I'm not blaming anyone, everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless of how long they've been here, I'm not arguing any different. Nor am I suggesting the event doesn't face challenges nor that it needs to continue to change.

I'm simply making an observation. Opposition to the TT is almost never what the protagonists claim it to be, a concern for the willing participants. It frustrates me that people are so unsure of the basis of their own argument that they dishonesty try to bolster it by feigning concern for what they see as the least defensible side of the event.

You only have to look at this and other threads to see obvious signs of multiple user names perpetuating bad news and faux outrage.

I happy to debate the issue with anyone who's open and honest about their objections.

I just extremely dislike the dishonesty and underhand tactics of the shouty minority to dress up their argument and its support to something it clearly isn't.

[paswt]

On 4/24/2023 at 6:45 PM, Steve_Christian said:

Yes the IOMTTMA were part of the consultation. 

The IOMTTMA ceased to exist on 31st Dec 2022 without consulting its members ( over 600 members ), it was replaced by the TTMA Ltd , having 2 members ( ratified by government  . Marshals are not consulted , they are instructed . Hope this helps 

[Steve_Christian]

2 minutes ago, paswt said:

The IOMTTMA ceased to exist on 31st Dec 2022 without consulting its members ( over 600 members ), it was replaced by the TTMA Ltd , having 2 members ( ratified by government  . Marshals are not consulted , they are instructed . Hope this helps 

The consultation happened way before 2022, and the change in the company structure. 

[Mr Helmut Fromage]

9 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Observation. Yes there are Manxies who don't like it but they are undoubtedly in the minority. I think come-overs with the same view are too TBH, many love it, some are only here because of it.

I'm not blaming anyone, everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless of how long they've been here, I'm not arguing any different. Nor am I suggesting the event doesn't face challenges nor that it needs to continue to change.

I'm simply making an observation. Opposition to the TT is almost never what the protagonists claim it to be, a concern for the willing participants. It frustrates me that people are so unsure of the basis of their own argument that they dishonesty try to bolster it by feigning concern for what they see as the least defensible side of the event.

You only have to look at this and other threads to see obvious signs of multiple user names perpetuating bad news and faux outrage.

I happy to debate the issue with anyone who's open and honest about their objections.

I just extremely dislike the dishonesty and underhand tactics of the shouty minority to dress up their argument and its support to something it clearly isn't.

Only lacking an Everest reference…..

[paswt]

On 4/24/2023 at 7:22 PM, Steve_Christian said:

I don’t think it’s unrealistic to expect the directors of the TTMA, all of whom here voted into their positions by the membership, are experienced marshals (including the Chief sector Marshal) and have access to all of the data of who has signed up for years, can contribute to the decision on behalf of the marshals adequately. The biggest issue would have been restrictions on travel post covid - but there isn’t any. 

 

 

when the TTMALtd  was set up there were 2 members ( 'ratified by IOM Gov ") who had voting rights . Just saying

[paswt]

7 minutes ago, Steve_Christian said:

The consultation happened way before 2022, and the change in the company structure. 

There was an EGA of the IOMTTMA Ltd which was adjourned  when members voted against it being wound up , it was then adjourned again  and members were subsequently advised that it was wound up on 31Dec 22 . 

The company did not change it's structure it was folded without reference to it's members and replaced by a new company , the TTMA ltd.

Perhaps before posting inaccurate information you should check facts .

hope this helps

[Ringy Rose]

16 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

We work less hours than 20 years ago.

No we don’t work fewer hours.

What the ONS report is that there are more people in part time and zero hours work, mainly because they can’t get full time work.

I’m in my early 40s and when I started work 20 years ago a standard working week was 35 hours, now it’s 37.5 hours. Add in the usual nonsense about “being late” if you’re not working at 9am (oddly employers don’t mind if you don’t finish bang on 5) and, well.

15 hours ago, Ativa said:

I do think people are downplaying the popularity of the event, and it’s confusing me because I must move in very different circles to some of you.

A motoring forum infrequent is full of posts from people asking about accommodation, where to watch and others talking about coming for the umpteenth time.

Absolutely. I was on holiday in Spain last year and said I’m from the Isle of Man (said in Caroline Aherne’s voice, natch) and the response was always “ah the TT”. Same in Germany.

[Steve_Christian]

45 minutes ago, paswt said:

when the TTMALtd  was set up there were 2 members ( 'ratified by IOM Gov ") who had voting rights . Just saying

Again. The consultation was made before these changes. So your point is irrelevant with regards to the consultation. 

[Max Power]

26 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

No we don’t work fewer hours.

What the ONS report is that there are more people in part time and zero hours work, mainly because they can’t get full time work.

I’m in my early 40s and when I started work 20 years ago a standard working week was 35 hours, now it’s 37.5 hours. Add in the usual nonsense about “being late” if you’re not working at 9am (oddly employers don’t mind if you don’t finish bang on 5) and, well.

Absolutely. I was on holiday in Spain last year and said I’m from the Isle of Man (said in Caroline Aherne’s voice, natch) and the response was always “ah the TT”. Same in Germany.

In general people are working fewer hours, but despite what I say about rampant socialism in the Isle of Man, we do lack social policies. We allow the evils of zero hours contracts to ruin people's lives, forcing them into two or three jobs and overall long hours. 

When I began as an apprentice, I had to work Saturdays if I wanted to attend day release at IoM College. It was a 40hr week, but woe betide you if you tried to go home at 5pm or were arriving any time after 8am. All for £3-07p for 48hrs, half of what others were receiving elsewhere in the same job for 40 hrs! No social policies then either as I got sacked for complaining!

[Happier diner]

11 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

The event has changed and continues to change, beyond all recognition in my life time alone.

I think many come-overs are very dismissive of anything Manx, aided by some Manx people who agree with them, and let's be honest, our government facilitate this on many levels. But the TT, whatever you think of it, is the mother of all Manx success stories. The TT is a huge part of the heritage, culture and folklore of not just the island but of motorcycling itself. It's a truly remarkable feat for an island the size of ours to maintain a world recognised presence in a sport for well over a hundred years, and to be honest I think this irks some incomers whose egos like to tell them their presence is of vital importance on an island of local yokels who aren't very bright or worldly.

Yes demographics have changed, this is true of motorcycling rather than just the TT. The TT has always appealed to real world bikers and bike manufacturers being based as it is on production machinery - bikers are older, there as fewer commuters and many more leisure riders (an expensive hobby), decades of functional Japanese dominance is over, cheap reliability and practicality now comes below style and comfort ( reflected by BMW's recent success on the mountain course).

A good barometer for the TT whose popularity has ebbed and flowed over the past 50 years since the world championship era, has always been UK motorcycle sales which are continuing their upward trajectory despite cost of living pressures, and there's no reason why a well managed and progessive TT cannot continue well into the future, despite the inevitable doom mongering of the constant influx of new residents who will no doubt continue to believe that Manx history began the day they stepped off the boat.

I think that's a fair enough view. I certainly dont think its right that people should moan here straight of thr boat when they get here. People seem to have two moans

1. Inconvenience

2. Concern about the number of deaths.

Some have both. I think come overs have no right to have any right to complain about 1. But perhaps they do about 2.

I agree that things have changed. Massively in terms of the size of the event and the quality of the machines and riders as well as the commercial aspect. I'm not sure there have been any significant changes in terms of safety though. No attempt to make tweaks to the course where the dangerous bits are. That's my only gripe. I was stunned last year, so much so that I cant even face to be here this year. I was too near to it and had a big angry wobble. Just my view. I have mellowed as the year as gone on and hope that this year is better.