P.K.

Total bollocks. Divide recent history into forty year chunks and I think you'll find the odd world war featuring. Plus he can't have the faintest idea how Brexit will pan out. Dear me, did you know the word "gullible" has been removed from the OED...?

That will be the Heseltine who put principle before party politics then re Westland? Sorry and all that but you're going to have to do a great deal better than glib, throwaway soundbites to put that highly EU skilled trio down...

I'm not all doom and gloom because I want my standard of living to rise as much as anyone else does! Yes please! But when extremely EU experienced politicos like Major, Blair and Heseltine all get up on their hind legs, which they don't need to do, and caution that a more pragmatic approach is needed then I listen because it would be simply foolish to do otherwise.

You don't tell it like it is though. You believe the other side's bullshit. That's the whole point! You're missing the point however I'm sure it's deliberately. Every organisation needs people who tell it exactly as it is. They are very important. I used to treat them as "weather vanes" for want of a better expression. Fortunately I was in a company which had deliberately gone from a pyramid structure to flat and broad. Folks at the coal face ALL know what direction the company is headed in. However not many are prepared to tell the management team face to face. So when they tell you then believe me you had better bloody well listen! UK management has an international reputation for being useless. In my experience it's because they are aloof, ego-driven wankers who think they know better than the vastly experienced foot-sloggers. Basically they're frequently a bunch of twats. Which is fine because it meant we could sell them lots of stuff.

It's very important that every team has someone who tells it like is. Otherwise some folks might start believing their own bullshit and that would never do....

They have to agree it but you are incorrectly linking it to Gib. They will agree it because there is too much vested interest at stake. They want to sell their stuff and heads will be banged together. You worry too much. Personally I hope they DON'T agree it. A clean break would be sorted much sooner and we could get on with it instead of this nonsense for years on end. So it definitely WILL NOT occur to nations like Spain to use the threat of a UK WTO only deal for political leverage? Phew! Thank goodness for that!

So all 27 EU nations DO NOT have to agree any UK trade deal and I must have dreamt the bit about the Walloons getting difficult over the Canada farrago? So that's all right then!

Doesn't say that. Read it again. Read what again? The report on Gib. It says that a trade deal would not apply to Gib unless that is agreed between UK and Spain, not that Spain has a veto on the whole deal. Gib is more than accustomed to being supplied from the UK. Sorry. But I thought all 27 EU nations had to agree any deal. Isn't that how the Walloons got difficult over the EU - Canada agreement? I think I had better start reading The Daily Wail to avoid getting any more fake news....

Doesn't say that. Read it again. Read what again? The report on Gib. It says that a trade deal would not apply to Gib unless that is agreed between UK and Spain, not that Spain has a veto on the whole deal. Gib is more than accustomed to being supplied from the UK. From where?

Doesn't say that. Read it again. Read what again?

So Spain may veto any UK trade deal with the EU unless they get a say on Gib. As Gib voted something like 96% to stay in the EU I guess they have a case....

Richard finishes work at 16:00 (starts at 08:00) and doesn't post on MF outside of work because I have better things to do with my personal time than trade poop flinging with you chimps. It absolutely doesn't bother me, after all my name is known throughout the island. Although when booking something like The Racket it does get annoying after the first few thousand times that when I give my name the person on the other end starts giggling and sometimes outright laughter. However if I was Richard Britten I would be very wary of people doing something like checking my profile at an Apprentice Wannabee site like LinkedIn. Because then they could contact the management, if you get my drift....

Last night I watched the Question Time Brexit Special - how I wish I hadn't bothered. Frankly the idea of David Davis "leading the Brexit charge" as it were fills me with dread. He can bang on and on about "getting the best deal for Britain" etc etc and citing that it could be a "comprehensive free trade agreement" etc etc however we should all be aware that the best deal we end up with could be simply be a WTO one. Davis chose not to mention that. I wonder why? On migration he also failed to mention that in most years we had as many non-EU migrants as EU ones. So like Farage, Gove and Johnson on that one then. I personally hate Nick Turncoat Cleggy for giving my vote to the likes of Rees-Mogg, Gove and Johnson. However he put in a fairly decent performance. In other news some MP's walked out of the Commons Brexit Select Committee claiming the Brexit White Paper report was "Too gloomy". Of course, they couldn't actually challenge the contents as nobody really knows how things will pan out. It seems to me that it's all proving to be as hateful, toxic and divisive as the appalling Thatcher tenure....

Some irony there Corporal... Thing is, it doesn't take long when, in a debate with you, it is reduced to derogatory terms such as "some mindless twat" (see above), or "xenophobic, thick as... etc. (ad nauseum, see PK passim), and it's not just with me or woolley, et al. The, provocative, 'down-the-nose' manner you adopt with an air of superior enlightenment doesn't make you an attractive prospect for reasoned debate. It's not very interesting and stifles debate.

Thing is, it doesn't take long when, in a debate with you, it is reduced to derogatory terms such as "some mindless twat" (see above), or "xenophobic, thick as... etc. (ad nauseum, see PK passim), and it's not just with me or woolley, et al. The, provocative, 'down-the-nose' manner you adopt with an air of superior enlightenment doesn't make you an attractive prospect for reasoned debate. It's not very interesting and stifles debate. So put me on "ignore" - sorted!

As I believe I have posted before I used to spend my xmas working at a "Crisis at Christmas" centre. Believe me you know real poverty when all the folks there have got are the "clothes" they are stood up in. And I've had several trips to India over the years. I disagree with your synopsis though. If you can hardly afford anything then the ONLY effect a general rise in income has on you is that you end up with less! Because prices and wages tend to follow one another. You can see it in the direct effect of regressive taxation like Gideon's rise in VAT back in 2011. A point made by that nice Richard Murphy http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2011/01/04/why-vat-is-regressive/ ETA : time this thread got back on track. I'll think about it while I'm quaffing pints in The Albion @ Chester

But like you said, it's just some bloke on the internet. It doesn't really matter, so why worry? And just who is worried? If I don't like what can be interesting debates being fagged up by some mindless twat posting their gibberish, well, it's what the "ignore" feature is for. You do what suits you. I do what suits me. Everybody wins.

It's nothing to do with things I disagree with. An assumption you have made that is totally unfounded and completely untrue. After all, it's difficult to disagree with pathetic personal attacks probably made because the poster gets off on it...

In your opinion. Which I have to say I don't think much of. I currently have 4 on ignore and all for the same reason - they never post anything I think is worth a reply. The route you are on it would seem i.e. bringing nothing to the debate.

Eh? I can see his posts if I want but why would I bother...?

I think you already know the answer to that Mr C. Take it from someone who knows putting woody2 on "ignore" can only enhance your MF experience....

It isn't when you're living in it..... It is. I've had some although I didn't think so at the time, because it is relative. I was perfectly happy as a kid but my household would have been termed "deprived" by the great and the good. It is also subjective. As you can see from the link, there is little agreement as to the parameters of measurement. I spoke at Communist Party meetings as a young member, and I've made all of the arguments from the far left perspective. I'm interested why you used the expression " my household would have been termed "deprived" by the great and the good" Surely you are either deprived or you're not?

Some irony there Corporal... Not to me there isn't. But just like you it's the opinion of just some bloke on an internet forum whose opinion isn't any more valid than the opinion of anyone else. Which begs the question why bother to post it up in the first place? What a waste of bandwidth....

It isn't when you're living in it.....

We no longer get a daily Grauniad...