Civil Service Pensions

[Manxmouse900]

I paid 11% of my wage, every week, for 39 years - to pay for my pension. I am informed that to get my money back I will need to live to 83 but I am not sure how accurate that is.

 

Dudley perhaps you'd like to take the 45% loss my stock market linked private pension achieved last year. I think its such good value having to double my personal contributions to compensate for this whilst I'm paying for every government worker to have a nice comfy retirement.

 

I work for this government and am sick of people saying they are subsidising my pension. i have paid into this scheme for 22 years and now find that they want to mess with my future.

 

If you are a civil servant you have not paid into the scheme for 22 years. As I understand it you have paid 1.5% of salary to cover the death benefit you would get if you died before retirement age - which if you retire single you get paid back to you as a lump sum anyway. You have actually paid nothing into your 'pension' because your pension is not contributory. Please don't delude yourself that the very small amount you are actually paying is paying anything at all towards your pension benefits.

 

 

Just to clarify, Police pay 11% of their wages to pay for their pensions, which as Dudley states would mean he would have to arrive at age 83 before seeing the 'benefit'. Not too many yrs ago the average life expectancy of a Police officer was 5 yrs post-retirement, although things have apparently improved a little on that score.

 

Stock market linked pensions are naturally going to be high risk and of personal choice - had you been quids in I'm sure there would have been no complaints (although you do have my every sympathy, you can't have it all ways).

 

Police officers chose/signed up to their role with the benefits that are attached, although having to pay a significant amount of their wages to achieve them. This is due to the inherent risks that go with the role. Although I work in the UK I am a Manxie and am only too aware of the risks both here and on the island (I still keep in contact with friends from school who joined the Police on the island).

 

Thanks for helping with my application for transfer back home 'thoughts' because if thats an example of public support now on the island I'd rather stay where I am where at least I'm used to people having issue with us for no apparent reason.

 

I suppose you could always look at it that whilst you think you are 'paying' for nice retirements that perhaps those that have been running around dealing with the nastier side of life for 30+ yrs (and actually paying for their own retirements) to protect you may actually need a little rest!!!!

[manxy]

I can't work out pensions as it seems like spin every time I look at them.

I'd imagine the Government consultants dealing with problem of resolving the issues will make a couple of million out of this as I understand that it will be somewhere in 2011 when finished, but the one thing that really, really, and really annoys me out of all this, is that the MHK's have taken themselves out of the equation.

 

They absolutely IMO, should lead by example and be included in exactly the same deal.

Yes I've heard people say that YOU voted them in, but regardless if you vote or not, someone will take the position of a MHK. It does irk me to see that they can vote for any percentage pay rise or any fancy that they want, as it seems that I do not have any say over what they do. I could complain, but does this actually do anything apart from creating another civil service position?

 

I believe that if the MHK's were on the same footing as everyone else, then there would be less hassle but at the moment, they appear to be having ones cake and eating it too.

 

Usual blah.... fat cats, gravy train, too many politicians, people other than politicians don't matter....etc...etc...

 

Rant finished.......................

[Manxmouse900]

Just to clarify, Police pay 11% of their wages to pay for their pensions, which as Dudley states would mean he would have to arrive at age 83 before seeing the 'benefit'. Not too many yrs ago the average life expectancy of a Police officer was 5 yrs post-retirement, although things have apparently improved a little on that score.

 

How do you work that out? Police officers can retire at 50 after 30 years service under the current scheme thats why the contributions need to be larger from outset because the income is often paid from an earlier age and therefore is often paid for 10/15 years longer than a civil servants. Only an idiot could not work that out.

 

Stock market linked pensions are naturally going to be high risk and of personal choice - had you been quids in I'm sure there would have been no complaints (although you do have my every sympathy, you can't have it all ways).

 

They are not a matter of personal choice as virtually nobody in the private sector can access a final salary scheme anymore so it is not their 'choice' to take out a stock market linked plan it is really all they can have. Many don't like the risks but its all they are ever going to get.

 

Police officers chose/signed up to their role with the benefits that are attached, although having to pay a significant amount of their wages to achieve them. This is due to the inherent risks that go with the role. Although I work in the UK I am a Manxie and am only too aware of the risks both here and on the island (I still keep in contact with friends from school who joined the Police on the island).

 

I don't buy that argument either - if officers under the current pension scheme can retire at 50 after 30 years service then the contributions they make need to be commensurately higher than those for civil servants as the income they receive is often going to be paid for much much longer. How many are usually still serving after 55?

 

I was talking about the daily risks that go with the jobs..... would you want to be rolling around on the ground trying to arrest someone considerably younger and fitter etc after 55?

 

Thanks for helping with my application for transfer back home 'thoughts' because if thats an example of public support now on the island I'd rather stay where I am where at least I'm used to people having issue with us for no apparent reason.

 

There is no public support. Government workers are totally deluding themselves if they think that a public collectively shitting itself whether they are going to be in work next week supports spending more of their tax money boosting government pensions. It shows how detatched from reality government has become.

 

You seem to be getting confused.... the Police are not civil servants.

 

I suppose you could always look at it that whilst you think you are 'paying' for nice retirements that perhaps those that have been running around dealing with the nastier side of life for 30+ yrs (and actually paying for their own retirements) to protect you may actually need a little rest!!!!

 

I don't care frankly.

 

A response to be expected from a greedy and selfish person suffering with sour grapes and a lack of public spirit!!!!

[Albert Tatlock]

A response to be expected from a greedy and selfish person suffering with sour grapes and a lack of public spirit!!!!

I don't think so.

 

Many of us are fed up to the back teeth of having to support 11,500 civil servants, the majority of whom have troughed at the pension pot - AND - expect tax payers to further top it up when their pot is short of money. In the meantime many private industry pensions (especially based in the UK) have been robbed by Gordon Broon, with most pensions force-opted-out of company schemes to rely on a collapsing FTSE etc.

 

Joe Taxpayer at least deserves accountability and an audit, never mind efficiency, economy and effectiveness, when there are so many civil servants sucking at his teet on this island.

 

Politicians take note.

[yootalkin2me]

I am a government employee as a manual worker, I have bought back years I missed so that I can retire on a full pension, this pension is exactly the same as when I worked for Manx Telecom which is in the private sector so that kicks the shit out of anyone's notion that gov. pensions are way better than private ones......secondly when this Island is battered and bruised by natural occurrances I only hope that the people wanting to trim the amount gov. employees are referring to the vast majority of parasitical wastes of space civil servants and only some of the manual workers (those chancers who take the piss, and yep I work with some of 'em).....frankly for the past decade atleast the government has been a complete bunch of fuckwits who would be about as much use as a cock flavoured lollipop at a lesbian convention, and should be brought to book...jst before christmas I did a job for a high ranking member of Government to which I thought I did a really good thorough job in a very reasonable time and had I been the customer would have been pleased with the job, but oh no...on 3 seperate occasions I was questioned as to wether I provided value for money, 3 feckin times !!! and an investigation is made where about 8 civil servants traded emails and spent more time (this transposing into tax money) than was spent doi ng the job in the first place... I work for the taxpayer and that includes myself, my family, my wife's family and all our friends.....So I say how fucking well dare they attempt to jeopardize my pension scheme and not their own.....again I reiterate...I can't wait till I sell my house and go to the UK where atleast the fuckwitted, corrupt duplicitous twats that run the place will never eat, shop or drink in the same places that I frequent, unfortunately that is the case on this Island and that makes it a much more bitter pill to swallow

[Manxmouse900]

I am a government employee as a manual worker, I have bought back years I missed so that I can retire on a full pension, this pension is exactly the same as when I worked for Manx Telecom which is in the private sector so that kicks the shit out of anyone's notion that gov. pensions are way better than private ones......

 

I think that you will find that no new Manx Telecom workers have been able to take advantage of such a guaranteed scheme for about 10 years so it rather kicks your logic in the ass doesn't it?

 

... and Manxmouse 900

 

A response to be expected from a greedy and selfish person suffering with sour grapes and a lack of public spirit!!!

 

You're trying to get everyone else to subsidise your pension, and yet I'm the greedy one for objecting to pay for it? Dream on.

 

To clarify again as from your earlier post you have not taken notice..... the Police ARE NOT Civil Servants and secondly we subsidise our own pension pot. ELEVEN PERCENT OF WAGES TO DO SO!!!!! Plus they also pay into the usual pot for everyone else.

 

Your greed stems from the clear pound signs that were flashing through your eyes when your private pension was rocketing but now (having taken a huge risk which is written into the policy itself and you knew when taking it out) you're annoyed because it has gone pear shaped. Your sour grapes now dictate that everyone else should lose out (i.e. as with a petulant child - 'IF I CAN'T HAVE IT NOBODY CAN').

 

The Police have a separate agreement from Civil Servants as do the Teachers. When the officers signed up to this they signed up to the pension agreement as well as that they are on duty 365 days a yr 24 hrs a day and have to operate under discipline regulations and are not allowed to be part of a union or go on strike.

 

Just to clarify that for you, if you were a road sweeper and saw somebody littering when you were off work you would not be obliged to go an pick up the litter as you are off-duty. If an officer sees somebody committing a crime they are unable to walk past and ignore it - i.e. they would have to intervene without all the protective equipment that they normally wear and get on with it. To not do so is against the Police regulations and could lead to disciplinary against them. Even without the discipline code the officer would act as it is automatic and the moral thing to do, which is why they joined the job in the first place because that is the type of person that they are and should be (as with any job though there is always the exception to the rule). Dental care and all other 'perks' went some yrs ago. The only thing for an officer to look forward to is the pension that they pay eleven percent of their wages to provide.

 

Are you aware that new recruits have to work for 35 yrs with less pension at the end of it?

 

The Police also pay taxes and are therefore subsidising YOUR Government pension.

 

As for politicians, I have no idea how there pensions work so please take that up with your local MP.

 

Good luck with sorting your own pension out but unless you fancy dealing with crime or teaching children, please don't presume to know or understand the reasons behind getting a decent pension at the end of a hard job where no matter what you do, somebody will not like it. I'm sure the Manx Police have exactly the same problems as over here when it comes to people who, 'frankly don't care' but are the first on 999 when they need the emergency services and bleat like mad when the matter is not resolved to their liking (usually because they are too arrogant to realise that they were probably in the wrong in the first place). All the best......

[Tugger]

That copper who got reinstated after he was sacked for drink driving - I'll be subsidising his pension, won't I?

[P.K.]

To clarify again as from your earlier post you have not taken notice..... the Police ARE NOT Civil Servants and secondly we subsidise our own pension pot. ELEVEN PERCENT OF WAGES TO DO SO!!!!! Plus they also pay into the usual pot for everyone else.

 

Your greed stems from the clear pound signs that were flashing through your eyes when your private pension was rocketing but now (having taken a huge risk which is written into the policy itself and you knew when taking it out) you're annoyed because it has gone pear shaped. Your sour grapes now dictate that everyone else should lose out (i.e. as with a petulant child - 'IF I CAN'T HAVE IT NOBODY CAN').

Playing semantics, that is all. Sure PC Plod is not a civil servant, but they're still public servants though and they are funded the same way, which is the real issue. THEY ALSO DO NOT PAY ELEVEN PERCENT OF THEIR WAGES INTO THEIR PENSION FUND!!!!! - because it's pre tax. As far as I understand it they can also retire at 55 on a full whack. So tell me, retiring at 55 after 35 years in what percentage of their final salary will they get as a pension? Let's put some REAL numbers around this.

 

As to the "Your greed.... sour grapes...etc etc bollocks bollocks bollocks" once again I go back to WHY DO PUBLIC SERVANTS THINK THEIR PENSION FUNDS SHOULD BE RING-FENCED FROM THE CURRENT FINANCIAL REALITIES???? I'd really like an answer to that one.

 

Frankly it's a bloody cheek...

[Manxmouse900]

That copper who got reinstated after he was sacked for drink driving - I'll be subsidising his pension, won't I?

 

 

I take it you're talking about a manx officer? Haven't seen any in the UK news for a while.....

 

Plse re-read the above..... he's subsidising his own and yours quite nicely I'm sure!!!

[bluemonday]

Figures expose police convictions

More than 1,000 serving police officers in Britain have criminal convictions,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7936041.stm

[Manxmouse900]

To clarify again as from your earlier post you have not taken notice..... the Police ARE NOT Civil Servants and secondly we subsidise our own pension pot. ELEVEN PERCENT OF WAGES TO DO SO!!!!! Plus they also pay into the usual pot for everyone else.

 

Your greed stems from the clear pound signs that were flashing through your eyes when your private pension was rocketing but now (having taken a huge risk which is written into the policy itself and you knew when taking it out) you're annoyed because it has gone pear shaped. Your sour grapes now dictate that everyone else should lose out (i.e. as with a petulant child - 'IF I CAN'T HAVE IT NOBODY CAN').

Playing semantics, that is all. Sure PC Plod is not a civil servant, but they're still public servants though and they are funded the same way, which is the real issue. THEY ALSO DO NOT PAY ELEVEN PERCENT OF THEIR WAGES INTO THEIR PENSION FUND!!!!! - because it's pre tax. As far as I understand it they can also retire at 55 on a full whack. So tell me, retiring at 55 after 35 years in what percentage of their final salary will they get as a pension? Let's put some REAL numbers around this.

 

As to the "Your greed.... sour grapes...etc etc bollocks bollocks bollocks" once again I go back to WHY DO PUBLIC SERVANTS THINK THEIR PENSION FUNDS SHOULD BE RING-FENCED FROM THE CURRENT FINANCIAL REALITIES???? I'd really like an answer to that one.

 

Frankly it's a bloody cheek...

 

My wage slip shows the eleven percent of taxed money that gets taken out for the pension. It also gets taxed again before being paid to us. Just rang one of my Manx colleagues who confirmed that they follow the UK system.

 

Not sure about specific figures as it changes and I'm not due to retire for another eight yrs (with a few months added for unpaid maternity leave to catch up added).

 

To answer your last, why shouldn't the Police expect their wages to be ring-fenced? Would you like to try to apprehend an armed burglar whose only intention is to get away and doesn't care how he does it. Being a female officer doesn't stop you patrolling alone and colleagues are not always there very quickly. The danger element is regular for the Police (although the island is generally safer, conversations with Manx contacts confirm they still face a lot of the same stuff). Some incidents you attend, you haven't got a clue if you're going home afterwards safely, and having spent six months in hospital having been seriously injured apprehending a street robber with a knife I kinda hope that my pension will be safe. Again, I appreciate that there isn't as much issue with street violence etc on the island, however, every time your officers go to an incident involving people in domestic situations the potential is extremely high!

[Tugger]

I still don't see why your having chosen a dangerous job means that I should pay for your pension and my own. It's nonsense to try to suggest that you, who are paid entirely from the public purse, are subsidising the pensions of people in the private sector with your tax. All your money comes from us.

 

And notwithstanding your contributions, your pension is still being subsidised by us. If your contributions end up not being enough to give you your fat pension, we will end up paying it.

[P.K.]

My wage slip shows the eleven percent of taxed money that gets taken out for the pension. It also gets taxed again before being paid to us. Just rang one of my Manx colleagues who confirmed that they follow the UK system.

I don't actually believe that. In any event police funding in the UK is completely different from Mannin.

 

As to the realities of policing you went into it with your eyes open.

 

However once again "So tell me, retiring at 55 after 35 years in what percentage of their final salary will they get as a pension? Let's put some REAL numbers around this."

 

Why so coy I wonder?????

 

Edited to add link to Police Pensions - Home Office.

 

Extract:

 

There is no limit to the amount that an individual may pay in pension contributions; but there is a limit to the amount that may be paid free of tax

Something wrong somewhere.

[Manxmouse900]

I still don't see why your having chosen a dangerous job means that I should pay for your pension and my own. It's nonsense to try to suggest that you, who are paid entirely from the public purse, are subsidising the pensions of people in the private sector with your tax. All your money comes from us.

 

And notwithstanding your contributions, your pension is still being subsidised by us. If your contributions end up not being enough to give you your fat pension, we will end up paying it.

 

Because when this job is taken up, with it is a decent pension that has been in existence for a long, long time. The reason for the decent wages and pension is due to the Police service nearly falling apart in the 70s as although people wanted to join, they could earn more elsewhere with less danger to themselves. A large proportion of officers struggling to pay for their families were on the verge of quitting the jobs that they enjoyed. Seeing the problem, and following the Edmund-Davies Report of 1978, 1979 saw great improvements in the 'Policeman's Lot'. If you want your streets safe, there has to be a pay-off.

 

 

The police pay taxes and therefore pay for all of the same things that you do. In so doing the police subsidise your Govnt pensions and the Govnt pensions of everyone else, just like you do.

[Manxmouse900]

My wage slip shows the eleven percent of taxed money that gets taken out for the pension. It also gets taxed again before being paid to us. Just rang one of my Manx colleagues who confirmed that they follow the UK system.

I don't actually believe that. In any event police funding in the UK is completely different from Mannin.

 

As to the realities of policing you went into it with your eyes open.

 

However once again "So tell me, retiring at 55 after 35 years in what percentage of their final salary will they get as a pension? Let's put some REAL numbers around this."

 

Why so coy I wonder?????

 

Because I don't actually know..... ask a new officer as they are the ones that this effects.

 

Eyes wide open, you'd be surprised. And equally people joined the police knowing the safe (not the risky private ones) benefits would be there for them. Why should that be taken off them?