9/11 Or 11th September As We Call It

[bluemonday]

A pivotal point in modern history?

 

Views/opinions.

[K.os Theory]

/afixes tinfoil hat, pulls up chair and waits expectantly...

[Cambon]

A friend of mine from school, Boyd Gatton, was killed in that.

[Chinahand]

There is not doubt 911 was a catalyst for events of historic proportions. But as time moves on I think the more pivotal event was the election of George W. Bush - 911 certainly has had consequences, but many of those consequences come from how the administration that particular president ran reacted. No matter what George W wanted to get into Iraq, even without 911 I think it is highly likely he would have invaded.

 

911 was a catalyst, but catalysts need a chemical reaction to stimulate - George W was that chemical and the reaction has been toxic in the extreme.

[bluemonday]

Agreed.

Bush has polarised the world into a more divisive state than before 9/11.

Ill judged and heavy handed knee jerk reactions whilst understandable, have only exacerbated the original situation, and also permitted America to become the worlds policeman by default, concomitant with the decline of Russia.

 

It is a shame that Blair chose to play follow my leader without having the ability to consider long term implications.

 

It is also my feeling that the event led decisively to the erosion of personal freedoms on many levels and fostered a climate of fear which in turn ala catch 22 leads to more loss of freedom.

 

Too many restrictive stupidities now eminate from the perceived threat and 'Fear Of Terrorism'

It's a massive growth industry.

[jimbms]

It happened so what terrorist have killed many more in other places, some would say they brought it on themselves, after all they trained Al Quada in the first place, but whatever it happend, deal with it an move on, typical of the Yanks to expect the world to join them in thier moaning.

[Jimcalagon]

The ironic thing is that in the immediate aftermath of the attacks there was a massive upswell of international sympathy with the US, even from arab countries. Bush managed to destroy that with his later actions, especially the crazy notion of using the attacks as a justification for invading Iraq (a country where Al Qaeda was outlawed), a course of action he was seemingly hell-bent on, come what may.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

It is also my feeling that the event led decisively to the erosion of personal freedoms on many levels and fostered a climate of fear which in turn ala catch 22 leads to more loss of freedom.

Hmm, I think that it was more of an excuse to remove personal freedoms, as governments will use any excuse.

[manshimajin]

IMO in 100-200 years time 9/11 will be a chapter in a much bigger book - not a pivotal point. It will be seen as a terrorist attack that will be placed within the much wider context of the growing problems between 'The West' and "The Middle East" that have been building up over the last 100 years at least.

 

Terrorism has grown out of the 20th century thirst for oil and its connection with imperialism and post imperialism in the region, the issue of Zionism, Palestine and the creation of a Jewish homeland and the struggle between various arms of Islam.

 

Maybe if we are looking for pivotal points the 6 Days War and the overthrow of the Shah in Iran will in future be seen as much more pivotal than 9/11.

 

Certainly 9/11 was a rationale for increased military American involvement in the Middle East (as opposed to economic involvement) and for the USA to try and contain Iran, protect the Straits of Hormuz and to shore up the Saudi royal family but again IMO this is part of a much bigger continuum.

 

Just they say in detective novels in history 'follow the money' as that is far more pivotal than individual acts of terror.

[bluemonday]

Certainly 9/11 was a rationale for increased military American involvement in the Middle East (as opposed to economic involvement)

 

That's the crux to me. The 6 day war, The Shah, were localized events albiet with far reaching consequences in which the then superpowers had interests one way or another.

 

The US had a hand (either covertly supporting or indeed covertly opposing as in Russia in Afghanistan) events all over the globe - as did the Russians - but 9/11 gave the US-Bush the excuse/reason/mandate to use force openly wherever they decide it is appropriate and effectively without any coherent political opposition, using the justification of fighting global terrorism.

 

9/11s was also the locus to further its own long term commercial interests ie oil, in tandem with any military action that can be rationalised as necessary to defend itself and/or the west.

 

Bush must be the ultimate proponent of 'gunboat diplomacy' taken to the extreme.

[TheBloodyNine]

Yes 9/11 is pretty important. For a start its the day the Berlin wall came down.

[jehovah]

Nice day so far, sunny with the merest hint of a breeze.

[manshimajin]

Certainly 9/11 was a rationale for increased military American involvement in the Middle East (as opposed to economic involvement)

 

The 6 day war, The Shah, were localized events albiet with far reaching consequences in which the then superpowers had interests one way or another.

IMO the ousting of the Shah by the Ayotollah Khomeni was probably THE pivotal moment. All of a sudden there was a state that was very anti-American, funded terrorism on a big scale in the Middle East, had significant oil resources, was Shia Muslim unlike Sunni Saudi Arabia and controlled one side of the exit from the Persian Gulf. 9/11 didn't start anything in terms of the tensions in the Middle East or the animosity between the USA and some states there. It exacerbated a process that was already underway (the US Embassy hostage crisis, the shooting down by the USS Vincennes in Iranian territorial water of an Iranian civilian aircraft, Lockerbie, the first WTC attack in New York etc etc..).

 

9/11 was fuelled by this mutual animosity. I would still say that in future it will be viewed within the context of the worsening 'Middle East politics' not as an event that created the problem but exacerbated it.

[Mintchip]

It is also my feeling that the event led decisively to the erosion of personal freedoms on many levels and fostered a climate of fear which in turn ala catch 22 leads to more loss of freedom.

Hmm, I think that it was more of an excuse to remove personal freedoms, as governments will use any excuse.

 

I hate what happened on 9/11. Yes, it was a horrible tragedy for all those innocent people to lose their lives, and for what it has done to our personal freedoms since. I was working in our local primary school that morning. One of my collegues came in and asked, "did you hear the radio? There's something going on in New York...at the twin trade towers!" I said, "come on, let's put the TV on in the staff room." It was only minutes after the first plane crashed into one of them. We were 72 miles from the attack, just a bit too close for comfort. Spent much of the day between the classrooms and the staff room watching with disbelief the news reports, while parents came to pick up their children, panicked by what was happening. I remember just looking at each other in shock when we heard about the other two planes that crashed. It was truly frightening.

 

Eight years later, the reverberations of that day are banging loudly as my UK husband and I await the approval of his Immigrant Visa application. We have been jumping through hoops, filling out massive amounts of paperwork, providing evidence of a bone fide marriage, and paying the US government tons of money. None of my relatives or friends here can believe that it is so complicated to get him into the country. My answer is always, "thanks to 9/11." Yes, sure, Bush and Blair were quite chummy but that has not made the boundaries any less difficult to cross. The US is full of illegal immigrants and that's no secret. Trying to do it legally is a major effort (though well worth it in the end). We are two middle aged, middle class people who just want to be together. The whole thing makes me so angry.

[Albert Tatlock]

Yes 9/11 is pretty important. For a start its the day the Berlin wall came down.

Maybe, but in 1989. Julie Covington was born that day too, which is also as much to do with it, as is the importance of fishcakes to rabbits.