Brown For President

[Pat Ayres]

No such thing as the 'Chiltern Hundreds' here, if there were I wonder, how about assistant governor?

It would not be enforceable, legally, but could be used to embarrass and highlight the hypocrisy of the member. If, however, there were a clause stating that all financial help received from the party were to be repaid that would be enforceable.

The difference between 'independents' and LVP is that LVP members would not take a government positions. (Unless to not do so would seriously weaken the ability of government to govern) To act as an independent in this government would be to take a government position and agree to accept the ministerial code, see the hypocrisy? (Unless TB sacks you, see D Cannan).

As for LVP footing the bill, why, the resignation would be a personal act and not a party act. (see above)

If a sitting member joined LVP they would not be expected, by the party, to go for election again as they haven't signed the agreement.

The whole thing is in the planning stages at the moment to avoid what happened before, this forum along with other resources will be looked at to help us formulate the idea.

[Kopek]

 

(1)If, however, there were a clause stating that all financial help received from the party were to be repaid that would be enforceable.

 

 

(2) To act as an independent in this government would be to take a government position and agree to accept the ministerial code, see the hypocrisy?

 

 

1. does that mean you would use blackmail to retain your members beyond the dictate of their conscience?

Would that stand you in good stead with the electorate at a subsequent by-election?

 

2. Would that be any different to the other 32 members of Tynwald, including PK in the past. a conspiracy of

hypocracy?

 

Only the Ministers have that code, the dept members are supposed to support their minister but Cregeen, who didn't, only lost one dept and retains the higher salary for the other, £11000 for half the work? Not too harsh a punishment. Similarly, repaying the LVPs help from £11000, not too hard.

 

What about the embarrasment for the party of having a member leave and publicly state good reasons for doing so?

[Lost Login]

 

It would not be enforceable, legally, but could be used to embarrass and highlight the hypocrisy of the member.

But would it also not highlight the hypocrisy of your leader as he did not act in a similar fashion when leaving the Manx labour Party. Also it is in my view hypocritical to require such an action if an elected individual leaves the party but not if they join. In both cases they are arguable altering the platform on which they stood for election.

 

The difference between 'independents' and LVP is that LVP members would not take a government positions. (Unless to not do so would seriously weaken the ability of government to govern) To act as an independent in this government would be to take a government position and agree to accept the ministerial code, see the hypocrisy? (Unless TB sacks you, see D Cannan).

If you act as an independent there is no obligation to take a government position. There is no difference in fact between either independents or LVP members. Either can take choose not to take Government positions.

 

As for LVP footing the bill, why, the resignation would be a personal act and not a party act. (see above)

There decision to resign from the party would be a personal act. To resign their seat and cause a bi-election would be due to the rules established by the LVP. Indeed you state the LVP would try and embaress the individual. I presume you mean embarress the individual into causing a bi election. If the LVP only stated that it believed in the principal but it was up to each individual then I would agree it would be there choice. However the LVP appear to be trying to make it compulsory

 

If a sitting member joined LVP they would not be expected, by the party, to go for election again as they haven't signed the agreement.

Total hypocrisy. Just because they have not signed a bit of paper means the principal goes out of the window. It would be very easy for the LVP to state it would reject the application to join of any elected individual unless within an X period they resigned their seat.

 

The whole thing is in the planning stages at the moment to avoid what happened before, this forum along with other resources will be looked at to help us formulate the idea.

Maybe it would be better to actually formulate the idea before announcing it as presently I have to agree with Kopek it does look as if the LVP are almost thinking of trying to use Blackmail to ensure a member does not resign I maybe would not go that far but it seems that rather like the moonies and the actholic church the LVP want to make it very easy to join but extremely difficult to leave.

[Theodolite]

Pat - is it even possible for an MHK to resign? Is there a Chiltern Hundreds over here?

 

There have been plenty of MHKs resigned over the years. Since 1876 one of the first (but not the first) was John Mylrea who was elected in 1881 and had a long outstanding political career. He resigned because he was a director of Dumbells Bank. When he left there were many speeches in the House of Keys in support of him, although apparently the collapse of the Bank was in no way attributed to him, but in those days he did what was expected. Nowadays, especially in the UK, even if a politician or public employee is indeed found responsible for a problem, they wriggle out of it and might even be promoted. At worst it seems a nice fat golden goodbye will be proferred.

 

Resignations in the House of Keys in modern times are handled more discreetly.

 

In the last decade there were 4 MHKs who had committed a heinous crime (er, they had talked about parliamentary business on Manx Radio). Charlie Kerruish President of Tynwald didn't like this one bit* and was looking for a way to punish the gang of four. The matter was easily resolved with much relief, probably against their will, when the four told Charlie that they weren't going to stand at the conveniently upcoming general election.

 

Back on topic, it would have been nice to see Bill Malarkey MHK do a David Davis MP if he felt so strongly about his membership of Liberal Vannin Party. But to be fair, I think he'd have got his arse kicked.

 

 

 

*of course these days, many of our politicians can't help themselves from spouting their every thought over the airwaves. Changed times indeed.

[Pat Ayres]

He still might yet.

[Dodger]

He still might yet.

 

Back to the topic, who other than Brown would have the experience to do the job? Roden? Craine?

[Nellie]

He still might yet.

 

Back to the topic, who other than Brown would have the experience to do the job? Roden? Craine?

 

Clare Christain is the hot tip. If she stood, Arkwright's would have his work cut out to beat her.

 

Mrs Christian's nemesis is that after being an MHK for a few years in the 1980's she lost her seat at the 1986 General Election and was then brought back as an MLC. The lack of a public mandate may be a problem for her, although that was a long time ago, and since then, she's been a Minister and seems to be regarded as a good MLC.

 

Can't see Roden getting a look in. Rightly or wrongly, his accent wouldn't go down too well in some quarters, although is role in RHA did raise him to so sort of 'statesman' status in some eyes, and might help him.

 

Outside bet - Phil Braidwood?

[Pat Ayres]

My money is on Roden, firm but fair and a good communicator. Plus he's already got a wig so it is a money saving option.

[Dodger]

He still might yet.

 

Back to the topic, who other than Brown would have the experience to do the job? Roden? Craine?

 

Clare Christain is the hot tip. If she stood, Arkwright's would have his work cut out to beat her.

 

Mrs Christian's nemesis is that after being an MHK for a few years in the 1980's she lost her seat at the 1986 General Election and was then brought back as an MLC. The lack of a public mandate may be a problem for her, although that was a long time ago, and since then, she's been a Minister and seems to be regarded as a good MLC.

 

Can't see Roden getting a look in. Rightly or wrongly, his accent wouldn't go down too well in some quarters, although is role in RHA did raise him to so sort of 'statesman' status in some eyes, and might help him.

 

Outside bet - Phil Braidwood?

 

I have a personal issue with MLC's being elected to higher status as they have no public mandate, that said this is for President, I would suspect Craine, Rodan and Braidwood would stand a good chance for CM!

[Kopek]

The Pres of Tyn is a fairly ineffectual role, casting vote only and no opinion. Though rather cushy number £60k and little to do. Would Rodan want to leave the debate any longer and take this back seat? Or is CM his aim?

[woolley]

My money is on Roden, firm but fair and a good communicator. Plus he's already got a wig so it is a money saving option.

PerLEASE. Does using 50 words where 6 will do constitute a good communicator? Likes the sound of his own voice too much. Mind you, he could probably get forthcoming tricky legislation through by putting everyone to sleep while announcing it.

[Theodolite]

Back on topic

This discussion is about the possibility of Tony Brown being President of Tynwald. Paul said he had lurched from crisis to crisis under Brown's leadership. I think it is well within the topic to ask him to clarify what crisis he is talking about.

 

I would imagine that -Paul- is probably referring to the likes of MEA, IRIS, Corkhill court case (we've all mostly forgotten that particular pecadillo), Reciprocal Health Agreement, VAT Common Purse deficit, etc.

The MEA started while either Donald Gelling or Richard Corkill. IRIS started a long time before Brown became CM. The Corkill court case happened while Corkill was CM, and concluded while Gelling was CM. The RHC was hardly a crisis. It was badly handled, it threatened the travel plans of some, but it was hardly a crisis.

So, from your list, what we are left with is that the UK demanded a change to our VAT revenue sharing agreement and, as a result, government is having to look at making cuts. This may become a crisis. One crisis, which is bad enough, but it is hardly 'lurching from crisis to crisis' is it?

Oh, I forgot. The KSF debacle. Now that was and still is a crisis.

 

Tony flew the Manx flag for us though, and went down to the Westminster select committee to do some right talking.

[integrity]

Back on topic

This discussion is about the possibility of Tony Brown being President of Tynwald. Paul said he had lurched from crisis to crisis under Brown's leadership. I think it is well within the topic to ask him to clarify what crisis he is talking about.

 

I would imagine that -Paul- is probably referring to the likes of MEA, IRIS, Corkhill court case (we've all mostly forgotten that particular pecadillo), Reciprocal Health Agreement, VAT Common Purse deficit, etc.

The MEA started while either Donald Gelling or Richard Corkill. IRIS started a long time before Brown became CM. The Corkill court case happened while Corkill was CM, and concluded while Gelling was CM. The RHC was hardly a crisis. It was badly handled, it threatened the travel plans of some, but it was hardly a crisis.

So, from your list, what we are left with is that the UK demanded a change to our VAT revenue sharing agreement and, as a result, government is having to look at making cuts. This may become a crisis. One crisis, which is bad enough, but it is hardly 'lurching from crisis to crisis' is it?

Oh, I forgot. The KSF debacle. Now that was and still is a crisis.

 

Tony flew the Manx flag for us though, and went down to the Westminster select committee to do some right talking.

[integrity]

Roger Watterson MLC confirmed to Stu Peters on Manx Radio today Tuesday 3rd August 2010 that Noel Cringle will be retiring as President.

The President has a five year tenure which will end in July 2011.

The next general election is September 2011 when we see the end of Mr Brown as Chief Minister.

Tynwald observers will be watching to see how Tony will turn his dream into reality.

 

It is worth reflecting that in the next twelve months the club will be electing a new Governor and a new President, as our democratic process

excludes the public from deciding who should represent them as their Governor or President

[Stu Peters]

It was David Callister MLC to be completely accurate - although I'd hate to spoil a good conspiracy thread...