New Busses - Do We Need Them, Can We Afford Them?

[mojomonkey]

I think the only reason for double deckers is for the school runs. Look at any non-school run double decker and you'll rarely see it anywhere near full.

 

 

Utterly untrue. Everytime I get a bus out of Douglas there's more than a single deckers' worth of passengers. It empties out over the course of the journey, turns around and fills up. Also on the Southern Route you need lots of space for the luggage of people going to the airport. Are we supposed to stand till these cheapskates get off.

 

Ok, I never professed to be on an expert on double deckers that was just my previous understanding. I bow to your encyclopedic knowledge of public transport. I'll stick to using my feet, bicycle or car before resorting to public transport here.

[Alias]

Utterly untrue. Everytime I get a bus out of Douglas there's more than a single deckers' worth of passengers. It empties out over the course of the journey, turns around and fills up. Also on the Southern Route you need lots of space for the luggage of people going to the airport. Are we supposed to stand till these cheapskates get off.

Perhaps true on the pre-9am and post-5pm work runs, but aside from that they rarely have enough capacity to fill even one deck.

 

Seeing as work traffic is pretty predictable and people's destinations remain fairly constant, it could be an idea for the bus company to do a survey/get people to register their rough address (just the work runs, who are regular) and then they'd be able to perhaps run more accomodating/quicker routes and balance the loads better. Even if it's just asking for a postcode when selling a multipass.

[gazza]

I think the only reason for double deckers is for the school runs. Look at any non-school run double decker and you'll rarely see it anywhere near full.

 

 

Utterly untrue. Everytime I get a bus out of Douglas there's more than a single deckers' worth of passengers. It empties out over the course of the journey, turns around and fills up. Also on the Southern Route you need lots of space for the luggage of people going to the airport. Are we supposed to stand till these cheapskates get off.

 

theres lots of routes that these bus will be perfect for

[Declan]

 

Perhaps true on the pre-9am and post-5pm work runs, but aside from that they rarely have enough capacity to fill even one deck.

 

Certainly, that's the busiest time, but most of the afternoon ones are packed. I've also seen the Peel bus go past the Brown Bobby a few times with Bus Full signs up.

 

Last bus is usually full as well, you'd probably prefer to keep the grannies downstairs separate from pissed kids up,

[oldmanxfella]

I notice that the capicity is c.70 max for all models with around 39 standing. To be honest that is probably ok for most routes on the Island. The only reservation I have is the engine, not sure if it's powerful enough to drag 70 people up Richmond Hill? I may be wrong, just a thought as a lot of these bus types operate in flat urban areas.

 

So 70 max with 39 standing? I really hope they are not planning on using them on the school runs then. If its the chance of my kid being ferried to and from school events in a full fitted Protours coach with its own seat and seat belt for restraint, or standing up with 38 others in a busy bus ready to be fired through the windscreen when the driver slams on the anchors I know what I'd prefer. You can almost hear the compensation claims racking up

 

Also what are they going to do with the elderly on the town routes? Make them stand and then let the NHS pick up the tab for new hips and knees when they are jolted and jarred by our wonderfully smooth highways?

 

What a totally stupid idea to me.

[In fact . . .]

The good old days on school buses

[Mad Manx]

Got the number 1 at 10:10 this morning, no way would the number of people have fitted (seated) on a single decker. Got the number 4 yesterday at 10:40, same story. You might just about squeeze everybody on if you use the full standing capacity of the new buses. Standing is fine for a 10 minute nip around town over the flat but not so great when you're rattling around the islands shitty roads. What are the chances of fares getting reduced to compensate though, 2 hopes I would have thought?

 

So say I and the missus get a return ticket to Peel, it's going to cost us more than double the cost of driving with all the old inconveniences of the bus plus the added bonus of a 50/50 chance of having to stand. Anyone with half a brain would have to have no other choice before using the bus.

[Rocketman]

From where to where?

 

Were advocating a sensible mix. Main roads between major towns at peak times, school runs or night buses from Douglas should always be double deckers obviously. Port Erin to Castletown, Andreas to Ramsey , trips via old Laxey, Bride, Pt St Mary, Jurby, PT Soderick routes mid morning/afternoon or weekends for instance should be smaller hopper type buses shouldnt they?

 

Remember that we fund these services at a loss for convienience and social freedom not as a commercial operation.

 

Common sense surely ?

[Nellie]

The buses which are being replaced are 12/13 years old and life expired against industry norms. Therefore, not difficult to make a business case for replacing them around reduced maintenance costs, better carbon foot print, improve quality etc.

 

The wider question which needs to be asked, is can we afford the whole bus service in its current form? Last year, 2009/10, costs were £9.1m and income £2.4. Net subsidy £6.7m and this doesn't include apportionment of central costs like HR, Payroll, Finance etc. or capital funding. This an area which definitley needs the spotlight shining on it. The numbers actually look very similar to those at the Airport, which PG lifted the lid on last week.

 

I know we need some level of bus service. Some of what is delivered at present probably has the potiential to make money, other elements are clearly a social service. It's not as simple as saying 'privatise it', but there must be better ways of delivering the different types of service i.e. schools, commuter, evenings, weekends, private hires than having the whole lot delivered, as of right, by a high cost, monolithic, government structure.

 

Over to you Mr Cretney.

[Mad Manx]

From where to where?

 

Were advocating a sensible mix. Main roads between major towns at peak times, school runs or night buses from Douglas should always be double deckers obviously. Port Erin to Castletown, Andreas to Ramsey , trips via old Laxey, Bride, Pt St Mary, Jurby, PT Soderick routes mid morning/afternoon or weekends for instance should be smaller hopper type buses shouldnt they?

 

Remember that we fund these services at a loss for convienience and social freedom not as a commercial operation.

 

Common sense surely ?

 

Number 1 to Castletown, number 4 to Peel. With the number of buses they are buying I would have thought that these are exactly the sort of off-peak services they'd be looking to switch to the newer buses? I don't know how much common sense exists having spent a few years at college and experienced the daily number 22 balls up. It wouldn't be hard to look at the passenger numbers and see for example that an average of 50 passengers are using the 10:10 number 1 each morning and assume a smaller bus will do just fine. After 2-3 trips of standing people with alternative transport decide to use that and all of a sudden there's only 30 passengers average now, we can buy even smaller buses?

 

Maybe I'm looking at it from a different angle but if I was in charge I would be looking at encouraging more people to use what we've got rather than downsizing until you're only left with capacity for those with no other choice. Except the real rural routes of course, where even at peak times a mini bus would do fine

[Declan]

Port Erin to Castletown, and the one through PSM are part of a major route or are you suggesting switching to a smaller bus in Castletown? That's two drivers and two buses for the same route.

[Mad Manx]

No.

[Rocketman]

I made that up ! It was a guess...for example.

[manshimajin]

The wider question which needs to be asked, is can we afford the whole bus service in its current form? Last year, 2009/10, costs were £9.1m and income £2.4. Net subsidy £6.7m and this doesn't include apportionment of central costs like HR, Payroll, Finance etc. or capital funding.

Nellie, I'm glad that you have included capital costs in your comments. In the case of Ronaldsway, on a 40 year repayment cycle, it would increase the costs to the taxpayer of subsidies plus capital to nearly £10 million a year. The loan to Manx Gas should be costing them about £1.5 million p.a. over 40 years (I wonder if this is factored into the 'reduced' gas charges they have said will happen as a consequence of the new pipekine?).

 

If the bus service uses say £3 million of capital, repayable over 12 years to match service life, this adds about £360,000 to the cost of the service (at 6% interest).

 

Maybe the solution though is this Chinese proposal!!!! The Tunnel Bus. It might even rival Albert's monorail.

[jimbms]

Just a quick one, has anyone actually seen these buses in operation here or is this still a non founded rumour?