HeliX Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 So presumably when someone dies of cancer your response is "Nonsense, they were just weak and old"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowflake Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 It is a money spinner, some parents that have kids with ADHD get an allowance for "their condition" Details? It is a "care allowance" from social. I know there are some children that are seriously affected with this condition but I also believe there are a large number where it is simply bad behaviour that the parents cannot control. Catch up will you? It's called DLA (disability living allowance) and it would not be awarded for ADHD alone. There would be other underlying problems, possibly exacerbated by the ADHD, such as ODD, OCD, ASD, GDD, SPLD etc., etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Chinahand, are you sure about the islands typical school year-group being about 180 children on the whole island? Seems very low to me but I stand to be corrected. Class sizes on the island are now larger than the UK average from what I have been told recently by a secondary school head master. Sorry Blade Runner - I was in a rush and got my figures mixed up - what I started working outing out and then got distracted was how big the year group was in any of the secondary schools - there are about 900 kids in each year group and split between the five schools its 180 per school. My mistake! I've edited the post to reflect the figures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Even if there is scientific and medical 'evidence' for this condition (and I'm very sceptical) it wouldn't explain the multiplier effect of changes in childrearing, parenting and schooling which effectively have created a vacuum in which bad behaviour can express itself and flourish without sanction or judgement. Instead, bad behaviour is met with empathy, support, reward, funding, and the rationalisation provided by science and medicine, with its new cult of believers. I think someone got it right a while back when they described it as total bollocks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Unfortunately this subject is perfect for uninformed speculation by internet warriors/trolls Did someone call? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Oldmanxfella, I'm not really sure what to make of what you are saying. 0.9% of children under 18 are prescribed a drug which has been found to improve the behaviour and performance of children who have problems with ADHD - there is quite alot of evidence about this. What is your problem with that? An awful lot more than 0.9% of children can be over boisterous etc. I think it is very difficult to claim people are just labelling bad behaviour ADHD on these figures. Some people seems to be saying "back in the old days they (and their parents) would be disciplined and learn to control themselves the hard way". Maybe, but also alot of them would be abandoned, thrown out of education and be left unable to control their behaviour with big consequences to their future. I am no defender of a benefits culture, but ADHD isn't just down to bad parents chaving off the state. If there are parental problems, then being able to help the kids get some stability in their lives is important. That doesn't just mean medication, but involves a whole range of issues from discipline to role models to cognitive behaviour. I don't understand the anger that is being generated about 0.9% of the children on the Island. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Even if there is scientific and medical 'evidence' for this condition (and I'm very sceptical) it wouldn't explain the multiplier effect of changes in childrearing, parenting and schooling which effectively have created a vacuum in which bad behaviour can express itself and flourish without sanction or judgement. Instead, bad behaviour is met with empathy, support, reward, funding, and the rationalisation provided by science and medicine, with its new cult of believers. I think someone got it right a while back when they described it as total bollocks. Why are you skeptical of the evidence? I presume you accept new discoveries of physical illnesses that we previously didn't know about/didn't have a name for? Why is that different now that this is a psychiatric disorder? Is it not real just because you can't see it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I would love to know if Oldmanxfella had any experience with children diagnosed with ADHD or with children being considered for treatment for ADHD.To me, it seems incredibly naive and narrow minded to assume that every child with this problem is the result of bad parenting. Is his narrow mind and intolerance the result of bad parenting also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Even if there is scientific and medical 'evidence' for this condition (and I'm very sceptical). Are you "very sceptical" about all this then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Even if there is scientific and medical 'evidence' for this condition (and I'm very sceptical). Are you "very sceptical" about all this then? Yup. I've never met the child yet who given the latest electronic child-minding device didn't change in an instant from a hyperactive ferret to a passive and self absorbed narcissist. What's that all about then ? I didn't say I necessarily blamed 'bad' parenting. I said it was changes in parenting, schooling, socialisation etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 All this medical evidence is all very well & I believe these pet scans do show a difference in kids with adhd. However everyone is different & if you put a label on something there will be some medical way of diagnosing people with that label. For example - if you studied thick people you may find that their brain is smaller than average people. This could then be used as medical evidence that being thick is a "real condition". This doesn't mean we should throw millions of taxpayer's money trying to treat thick people, we should just accept that they are thick. I have no doubt that if you look hard enough you will find a medical or scientific reason for just about every difference in the human race, it doesn't mean they all need medical treatment. Some kids are just a pain in the ass, usually because they've been given little attention or discipline from their parents, that's life - don't read too much into it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I have no doubt that if you look hard enough you will find a medical or scientific reason for just about every difference in the human race, it doesn't mean they all need medical treatment. Possibly, though ADHD does not fall into that category. In severe cases it very much needs treatment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Yup. I've never met the child yet who given the latest electronic child-minding device didn't change in an instant from a hyperactive ferret to a passive and self absorbed narcissist. What's that all about then ? The name isn't an entirely literal definition of all the symptoms. You realise that, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-in-man Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 (edited) Edited May 24, 2012 by x-in-man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 All this medical evidence is all very well & I believe these pet scans do show a difference in kids with adhd. However everyone is different & if you put a label on something there will be some medical way of diagnosing people with that label. For example - if you studied thick people you may find that their brain is smaller than average people. This could then be used as medical evidence that being thick is a "real condition". This doesn't mean we should throw millions of taxpayer's money trying to treat thick people, we should just accept that they are thick. I have no doubt that if you look hard enough you will find a medical or scientific reason for just about every difference in the human race, it doesn't mean they all need medical treatment. Some kids are just a pain in the ass, usually because they've been given little attention or discipline from their parents, that's life - don't read too much into it. It's been done already Monkey boy. In the 1950s for instance, there was a whole industry in North America medicalising and giving scientific creedence to theories of low I.Q in black Americans. There were all sorts of studies, statistics, 'learned scholars', textbooks, journals etc., that 'proved' this to be the case. It formed the basis of American educational policy for years. I wonder if some of our chums have an opinion on that one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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