Why Do People Whinge.

[bluemonday]

As regards access in and out during TT, is it beyond the realms of possibility that this could be improved?

Throwing rocks into the sea at Ronaldsway seems to be funded adequately, why not spend some dosh on something with indentifiable and quantifiable benefits?

[Sebrof]

But I don't want to live in a facsmilie of 80's England. I want to live in a modern confident 21st Century Isle of Man.

 

Fair enough, as long as it's not too much like modern 21st Century UK.

 

I don't think it's just nostalgia and rose-tinted memories that make people compare the island to an earlier time in the UK. I think there are very specific things they value about the island, and associate with a perhaps misremembered golden age in the UK.

 

I find doing business on the island to be much less stressful than across. It's not necessarily more efficient, but there's fewer big egos to deal with. It's all just a lot more pleasant.

 

And the absence of speed cameras and parking meters is quite superb. It's little things like this that may be small in themselves but which add up to quite a lot.

 

When I miss the stress and back-stabbing, I come on here.

 

S

[WTF]

But I don't want to live in a facsmilie of 80's England. I want to live in a modern confident 21st Century Isle of Man.

 

 

come back in 50 years then.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Too many people think that once they move over, it's their island and they're entitled to moan about how many people are moving to the island and spoiling it. It's also said with the attitude "It wasn't like this when we first came to the island. The government should do something to stop all these people!" WTF?

 

Actually anybody is entitled to whinge and criticise about the Isle of Man and any facet of it if they know what they are talking about. The 'There is a boat in the morning' lot need shooting for their ignorance and narrow-mindedness. But petty whinging over facts of life which actually do not really cause much a serious problem are just boring. It is two weeks FFS and the road is not shut permanently.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

You know I find you attitude very dangerous jimbms. I recall the eighties when the Island was dying and in need of change and modernisation and the loudest voices against this change came from new residents who'd grown disenchanted with England and seemed to want to turn the Island into a museum piece.

 

Do you mean the anti-finance sector bunch?

 

Luckily, the modernisation forces won out and nineties and most of this decade have good and relaxed and positive. I think this was because we were outward looking and more confident (as I imagine we were in the 50's and 60's tourist heyday). But lately, we've become insular, and negative and the Island is a less pleasant place for that. And again I'm hearing "we don't want to end up like England" and "oh it's just like across twenty years ago" and again it's from new residents.

 

But I don't want to live in a facsmilie of 80's England. I want to live in a modern confident 21st Century Isle of Man.

 

I assume you are talking about the finance sector when you refer to modernisation?

I always thought attitudes and mindsets on the Island were insular. People on the Island do generally have this mentality that the world stops at the sea - which is quite understandable given that there is a disconnection with the UK, but it is difficult to overcome.

 

People say that the don't want the Island to be like England, but there is lots about England and the people who live there that the Island could really do with, and lots of things that are not needed. It is picking and choosing.

[Declan]

I was thinking more about social attitudes than work.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

I was thinking more about social attitudes than work.

 

Oh right. Can you explain more then, just interested in what you mean.

[Declan]

Ok I lived away for much of the nineties. When I left homosexuality was illegal, the most vocifous oponents to change were originally from England, the law hadn't been proscuted for many years (I think the Manx establishment prefered to turn a blind eye) until a new Chief Constable arrived from England. "Because we don't want to end up like England." You would rarely see anyone from outside the British Isles. Douglas was crumbling but desperately clinging to the notion that it was in a holiday resort. Yet all the cafes closed at 5 o'clock, apart from manky, greasy Griddles there was nowhere to eat in town if you wanted something between finishing work and going to the pub. No cinema, no bands at the Villa, few places for local bands to play, no clubs - just discos that played the same songs in the same order. Every new idea seemed to be met with an objection.

 

But when I came back there was a choice of pre-pub dining choices. Blokes holding hands. I'd be working with French, German, South African, Spanish, Greek - all sorts of people. There was the Outback for alternative types and a range of dance music venues; and people would organise one off nights or monthly events - Electrofresh, Northern Soul Night's, Agent Orange's garage and funk nights in Ramsey, Buggane's nights at the Hop Garden or out in Peel. There were cinemas, coffee shops, the nsc. And people had more money at that time than they'd had at the end of the 80's and were more well travelled.

[jimbms]

Well to go back to the original question, I fully agree, we moved here and have done our best to fit in to the ways here and found no problems along with finding some Manx folk accepting us more. I have met a lot of comeovers who constantly winge about things and these I find are the ones want to change things. SO my message to them is you have come to a new country with a different culture and way of life, so either adapt of fuck of back and stop giving those of us willing to embrace this way of life a bad name.

 

You know I find you attitude very dangerous jimbms. I recall the eighties when the Island was dying and in need of change and modernisation and the loudest voices against this change came from new residents who'd grown disenchanted with England and seemed to want to turn the Island into a museum piece.

 

Luckily, the modernisation forces won out and nineties and most of this decade have good and relaxed and positive. I think this was because we were outward looking and more confident (as I imagine we were in the 50's and 60's tourist heyday). But lately, we've become insular, and negative and the Island is a less pleasant place for that. And again I'm hearing "we don't want to end up like England" and "oh it's just like across twenty years ago" and again it's from new residents.

 

But I don't want to live in a facsmilie of 80's England. I want to live in a modern confident 21st Century Isle of Man.

I think you have trouble in understanding my words, what I said was I willingly adapted to how things are here I did not say I would oppose modernisation what I did say was I am not trying to force change to suit how I previously lived, let the island progress as it sees fit and how the people want it to, it does not need people moaning and trying to force it.

[Declan]

OK Jim I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Ok I lived away for much of the nineties. When I left homosexuality was illegal, the most vocifous oponents to change were originally from England, the law hadn't been proscuted for many years (I think the Manx establishment prefered to turn a blind eye) until a new Chief Constable arrived from England. "Because we don't want to end up like England." You would rarely see anyone from outside the British Isles. Douglas was crumbling but desperately clinging to the notion that it was in a holiday resort. Yet all the cafes closed at 5 o'clock, apart from manky, greasy Griddles there was nowhere to eat in town if you wanted something between finishing work and going to the pub. No cinema, no bands at the Villa, few places for local bands to play, no clubs - just discos that played the same songs in the same order. Every new idea seemed to be met with an objection.

 

From what I remember, I thought the most vociferous opponents were the Edgar Quine and David Cannan (may be wrong with the latter).

 

I can't remember back as long as you, but in the time I have known the Island it does seem to have become more a little more lively. Especially in what you say about the shops and where you can eat. Yet about ten years ago there seemed like there was a good choice of clubs and pubs. It was really good on a weekend. Now everything has died. There is little choice as to what to do if you want to go out drinking. That is one aspect of how I see things regressing.

 

But what do you mean about how attitudes has become less modern?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

it does not need people moaning and trying to force it.

 

Ultimately, it depends on what it is that they are moaning about. In an extreme instance, there could be something that those who have moved perceived to be a real injustice. But it could be anything that could be moaned about. An outsiders view should be welcome. If it is stupid the moaning should be ridiculed.

[Declan]

Well I didn't take much notice of what went on in the House of Keys at the time, I know Miles Walker was the advocate of the change. However, I was referring more to outside the Tynwald. I recall that at Tynwald Day one year there was this stall where this fire and brimstone preacher who was based out of Peel and spoke with a Lancastrian accent. Also the people asking for signatures against the change all seemed to be English. Perhaps people who are a bit older than me would recall it better.

 

Your "about ten years ago" would coincide with my "when I came back". I'm not sure I mean attitudes are now less modern, just that we have become inward looking and less confident - look at the reaction to the rather innocuous comments of Martin Clunes (comments that many Manxies could have made). Another thing in the last few years where we have been welcoming of people from other cultures, and I think benefited from their influence I hear a lot more negative comments particularly about Poles. I'm worried about this because I think we are a better nation and a better place to live when we look outwards to the World, rather than inwards.

[gazza]

. I'm worried about this because I think we are a better nation and a better place to live when we look outwards to the World, rather than inwards.

 

o come on now foxdale aint such a bad place

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Well I didn't take much notice of what went on in the House of Keys at the time, I know Miles Walker was the advocate of the change. However, I was referring more to outside the Tynwald. I recall that at Tynwald Day one year there was this stall where this fire and brimstone preacher who was based out of Peel and spoke with a Lancastrian accent. Also the people asking for signatures against the change all seemed to be English. Perhaps people who are a bit older than me would recall it better.

 

Though at first I would have supposed it would have been the Manxies who would have kicked up most of the fuss, I forgot that the Island would obviously be a little haven for some of those lovely traditionally minded types who move away from their country to escape the other benefits and problems that come from liberalism.

 

Your "about ten years ago" would coincide with my "when I came back". I'm not sure I mean attitudes are now less modern, just that we have become inward looking and less confident - look at the reaction to the rather innocuous comments of Martin Clunes (comments that many Manxies could have made). Another thing in the last few years where we have been welcoming of people from other cultures, and I think benefited from their influence I hear a lot more negative comments particularly about Poles. I'm worried about this because I think we are a better nation and a better place to live when we look outwards to the World, rather than inwards.

 

Hmm, I see what you mean. I think with your first point is an area that is really problematic. And the problem is that the Island's reputation, its character, and people's (on Island and off) ideas of what represents it are now inextricably bound up with business, or more specifically the finance sector. I find finance rather unsavoury and thoroughly boring so I may be a little biased but when I think of the Island I cannot help think of the finance sector, low taxes, banking, insurance, etc.

Therefore, it is quite understandable that if others share such an understanding of the Isle of Man and it has been 'internalised' and accepted, then any criticism of it would bring anger. But it is such a shame that this has happened and that people actually feel that the offshore finance sector needs defending BECAUSE it IS the Isle of Man. But many people seem to find it difficult to separate the business on the Isle of Man from the rest of the Isle of Man in their minds, they take it personally.

 

I have also heard a lot of criticism about Poles and Indians, including from some people close to me. But this isn't necessarily a regression of attitudes, thought the attitude is repugnant. People on the Island are now having to work and live next to people from other cultures and backgrounds and there is bound to be racist tension or xenophobic tension. The Island was only less seemingly racist before because the only people on it were British (or Manx).