Lxxx Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Bottom line! No one likes new taxes but we are short of money, as they say in personal finances, look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves. Yes it will only raise 2 million at first then double that when it raises to 100 quid a year but that is new revenue that the government needs, they cant cut 200 million from the civil service and public sector wage bill without basically saying we wont bother having any worthwhile public services. It is, at first, a quid a week per household, raising to 2 quid a week next year and although not announced it will likely go up in the following years. It is not a lot of money per household, you can probably find the first few months down the back of the couch. Do we think the islands sewer pipes maintain themselves? Fuck off 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 and if you have a septic tank you don't need the pipes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisenchuk Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 A well considered answer there,LXXX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisenchuk Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Well if we're bringing pipe maintenance into the debate it's worth asking how much we've spent with Insituform over the years and when will they be finished the refurb work. And perhaps we'd like to know how the contract was awarded and when is it due for tender again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alibaba Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 There has been a charge on the rates for the supply of water for a while now, you have accepted that and have paid it along with your rates. Why the shock when the water is put into your house and then discharged into the public sewers? What do you all think happens the waste water and sh1t? Fairy's dispose of it? I hate to burst your bubble but your houses are connected to a vast network of pipes that are taking that waste water and sh1t away, those pipes need maintenance and some of them are pumped which also costs money (the island had lots of pumped sewers before IRIS before some smart comment) Just because it is buried in the ground does not mean it does not need maintenance. It is a quid a week maybe 5 in the future, not a lot really in the whole scheme of things we have to pay for, is it? This charge isn't to pay for the pipes, it's for the LOANS. OK, so the loans may have been for the pipes, but they also might have been to rebrand from Ushtey to Water Authority to Water and Sewerarge Authority,along with other silliness, which won't have been cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bawden Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I think you may be wrong on a few points here H boy,firstly: as the MEA and water authority are being merged the same meter reader who already calls to read the elecy meter will take both readings in one visit. Secondly the purchase and installation costs aren't enormous according to someone I know in the industry. Why not issue a one off fee incorporated in the water bills over a twelve month period to pay for the purchase and fitting of water meters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Runner Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I think you may be wrong on a few points here H boy,firstly: as the MEA and water authority are being merged the same meter reader who already calls to read the elecy meter will take both readings in one visit. Secondly the purchase and installation costs aren't enormous according to someone I know in the industry. Why not issue a one off fee incorporated in the water bills over a twelve month period to pay for the purchase and fitting of water meters? Fitting water meters would, I think, result is less income for the government, never mind the cost of purchase and installation. There is no easy solution to the shortfall but despite what has been stated on this thread I dont think we are "light" 200 million, in the Good old Days of the VAT bonanza the governments spending budgets were set at "x" amount but they never fully spent that figure "x", the things like the Capital Budget, Does anyone know what shortfall we really have? No point in these debates without the real figures. Another revenue raising option could be the Island Traffic Light Usage Tax - Not introduced anywhere else in the world, so good for a bit of IOM publicity - we love a bit of publicity, Using the sensors under the road at traffic light controlled junctions they could bill motorists on a per "traffic light junction" used basis per use. It has its merits, the more a motorist uses a traffic light junction the more ware and tare on the lights and road surface; a say 50p per use charge, taken straight out of our bank accounts would raise a few quid. More of these sorts of taxes are the way forward as something like this penalises the rich as the poor dont drive or if they do, they dont drive much because of our massively expensive fuel costs..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Using the sensors under the road at traffic light controlled junctions they could bill motorists on a per "traffic light junction" used basis per use. It has its merits, the more a motorist uses a traffic light junction the more ware and tare on the lights and road surface; a say 50p per use charge, taken straight out of our bank accounts would raise a few quid. I have the answer to that too. Get rid of the bloody traffic lights. No need for them. Traffic flows better without them. With a bit of compulsory "weaving" at a few junctions and changes to bus routes we could easily do without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Bottom line! No one likes new taxes but we are short of money, as they say in personal finances, look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves. Yes it will only raise 2 million at first then double that when it raises to 100 quid a year but that is new revenue that the government needs, they cant cut 200 million from the civil service and public sector wage bill without basically saying we wont bother having any worthwhile public services. It is, at first, a quid a week per household, raising to 2 quid a week next year and although not announced it will likely go up in the following years. It is not a lot of money per household, you can probably find the first few months down the back of the couch. Do we think the islands sewer pipes maintain themselves? I don't think that is anyones point. This is a bad tax and the reasoning behind it is bad. It stops them putting tax up affecting the Islands richest residents, and it hits the low and average households more who are struggling. Its also not to keep public services, its to try to keep public servants in jobs which is a very different thing. If this is needed I don't want to see any more £300k roundabouts, or £30k a year hockey coaches, or £1m MER station refits, or £500k dining trains, no 2% civil service pay increase when pay has been frozen, and no bunches of idle twats leaning on shovels on Peel Road. But the truth is that this £2m tax won't make any difference to the IOMG culture, and neither will the next stupid tax they think up, or the next. Its just feeding a voracious appetite for cash, and an entitlement culture that believes that more cash will be raised without anyone actually having to do anything to adjust or to save money, or to act in a responsible way to balance budgets, or pay and conditions or anything, or to get their fingers out of their asses and be bloody accountable for what they do. Do you honestly think the island is full of rich residents that are driving the current policy? The island has a handful of tax cappers and a few "Northern Carpet Warehouse" types who like to show off their Audi at the local golf club (My apologies to Mr J Clarkson for butchering his funny statement). The island is not a place that has wealth, look around, you do not see any real wealth, from the cars driving about to the shoddy state of businesses and their premises. It may have its good points but it is very run down and very dirty. As I said above, income tax increases will not sort the deficit, more taxes will help and as I said again you cant cut the CS/PS even if you wanted to enough to make the savings, there would be nothing left of the CS/PS. The island has had it very easy on the back of VAT overpayment/ a good deal, whichever way you want to look at it but the party is over, all residents now need to get in the real world and pay their way, the few rich here are not the reason or solution out of this situation. Taxes need to go up. They need to go up before we dick about with this rubbish. I'm well aware of how our economy is constructed and I don't need a lesson about the VAT bubble. I didn't waste that money, and I didn't have any hand in how it was spent. I, therefore, couldn't give a shit about the mess we are in as that's IOMGs fault not mine. I've paid taxes for 30 years and now I'm being screwed because people can't make the big decisions needed to try to rebalance the books. @ Hboy. I agree with a lot of what you say above, but not the increase in taxes. Let's tackle the waste first, and the ruling mentality that a charge increase equals a saving. How much do you think you could raise in taxes as a matter of interest? What level of increases do you advocate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) The solution to our economic woes is not more taxation [1], but less SPENDING. Let's get rid of some civil servants and stop giving them percentage pay rises before we resort to taxing people to take a dump. [1] The best way to stifle prosperity is to raise taxes, because what you're doing is taking money away from the wealth/job creators and funneling it to a bureaucracy of administrators who create nothing. I'm sure we'll all be very proud of our well-maintained golden sewer pipes when we're all out of a job because the people who create the jobs fled to greener pastures. P.S. This tax has nothing to do with sewer pipes and everything to do with maintaining the civil service salaries and pensions. That's where any new taxes will ultimately be going. Edited January 25, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 It is odd to announce increases in civil service pay and a tax on toilets for the general population at the same time. Almost as though it is calculated to cause trouble. Perhaps the UK is using us as a testing ground to see just how far you can push a population before things start getting tasty. Or perhaps it's just our lot that are pig insensitive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 It is odd to announce increases in civil service pay and a tax on toilets for the general population at the same time. Almost as though it is calculated to cause trouble. Perhaps the UK is using us as a testing ground to see just how far you can push a population before things start getting tasty. Or perhaps it's just our lot that are pig insensitive. They were foolish to devise a tax which affects everyone. They should have found another way to tax the poor more, because they don't vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 It is odd to announce increases in civil service pay and a tax on toilets for the general population at the same time. Almost as though it is calculated to cause trouble. Perhaps the UK is using us as a testing ground to see just how far you can push a population before things start getting tasty. Or perhaps it's just our lot that are pig insensitive. They were foolish to devise a tax which affects everyone. They should have found another way to tax the poor more, because they don't vote. It's not only odd, it's stupid in the extreme. To my mind it shows the level of contempt that the government as a whole, elected and civil service have for the population of this island. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jefferson Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) Is it really stupid, though? What's going to come of it? They know we're all a bunch of lemmings who might moan about it for a couple of weeks but ultimately we're all going to acquiesce to paying the tax and nobody will even remember it in the long list of complete bullshit come the next election; and the population doesn't have the balls to "revolt" against the tax (and I count myself in that too). They can always count on the population to be good sheep and bend over and take it. Other than literally the entire island getting together and marching on the government with pitchforks and telling them to stuff it, there is nothing we can do but capitulate to their tyranny. Or I suppose we could all leave the island in droves and see how long they can keep it up with nobody left to tax. Edited January 25, 2014 by Thomas Jefferson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trmpton Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 The extra charge is because they need more money. One way or another we, the residents of the Isle of Man, have to contribute the extra money. By all kicking off with petitions, letters etc the government have to spend more of our money explaining to us why they need more of our money. Just accept if, and we all save money by not having reports written and consultants advising in other ways to raise money from us. In fact, if we all just pay whatever they ask for it takes less government staff to try and trick us and so we all pay less in the long run. To summarise, the money has to come from somewhere. The more we Object the more it costs us to pay them to figure out ways of taking money off us that don't make us grumpy, and the more it costs us for them to respond to silly petitions and letters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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