Keith Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 ...get rid off cooking (at junior level). I'd actually go the opposite way and have cooking obligatory right the way through school, from as early an age as possible until 16 years old. Having young adults who can understand nutrition and able to cook properly would potentially have a massive impact upon the health of the nation for decades to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Blindly following the UK when it comes to educating our children, as with so many matters, is lazy, unimaginative and often needlessly costly & is certainly no guarantee of high standards .In many, many ways they are more unusual or have lower standards than us in world or even European terms & (as demonstrated by your good self) the UK & it's people often have a very unhealthy insular view of things. Whereas you don't answer my questions or offer an alternative? What is the cheaper (because the current system is "needlessly costly") and better system that you have in mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Blindly following the UK when it comes to educating our children, as with so many matters, is lazy, unimaginative and often needlessly costly & is certainly no guarantee of high standards .In many, many ways they are more unusual or have lower standards than us in world or even European terms & (as demonstrated by your good self) the UK & it's people often have a very unhealthy insular view of things. Whereas you don't answer my questions or offer an alternative? What is the cheaper (because the current system is "needlessly costly") and better system that you have in mind? How the fuck should I know? If you were ever educated in missing the point then I say we follow wherever that was because I can honestly say I have met no one better at it than you. My point is that you seem happy to blindly follow the UK as some paragon of virtue in whatever they do because it's cheaper and better than doing anything else. I could name you endless examples of where this is not the case, education may or may not be one of them, I don't know, although in terms of standards I strongly suspect it is. The UK represents considerably less than 1% of the world's population & even less of its surface area. It would be nothing short of a miracle if they did things the best and cheapest in all the areas in which we blindly follow them, so why are you so against at least exploring alternatives? If large areas of the UK don't blindly follow the UK exam system in favour of their own then the must be some merit to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Apologies I still haven't answered your questions; Who will set the exams? An exam board - as at present. Who will mark the exams? People who are willing to work for peanuts (I did it a a student) - As at present. Who will make sure standards are met? Government should decide what standards of education are required & whether or not they are being met - if they are incapable of doing this we should sack everyone employed in education earning over £50K & replace them with someone worth the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 ...get rid off cooking (at junior level). I'd actually go the opposite way and have cooking obligatory right the way through school, from as early an age as possible until 16 years old. Having young adults who can understand nutrition and able to cook properly would potentially have a massive impact upon the health of the nation for decades to come. Couldn't agree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 My point is that you seem happy to blindly follow the UK as some paragon of virtue in whatever they do because it's cheaper and better than doing anything else. I could name you endless examples of where this is not the case, education may or may not be one of them, I don't know, although in terms of standards I strongly suspect it is. The UK represents considerably less than 1% of the world's population & even less of its surface area. It would be nothing short of a miracle if they did things the best and cheapest in all the areas in which we blindly follow them, so why are you so against at least exploring alternatives? Firstly, the UK education system is pretty good - link Secondly, by your logic, in population terms should we be copying somewhere like India, or for an even more ludicrous suggestion relating to surface area, the pacific ocean's education system? I agree that the IOM shouldn't just blindly follow whatever the UK does, but the fact is that we are bound to be closely aligned to the UK in many ways. Like it or not there is free movement between the 2 islands and the IOM does need to import comeovers for some roles - having a different education system may put some off from coming (which I realise you think is a good thing). In addition, many of the IOM's school leavers will seek higher education in the UK, and no matter what their regulations say, having A-levels makes it easier to get in, rather than having to persuade a university admissions tutor that your IOM 'highers', based on a hybrid Finnish/Korean model, are equivalent to 3 A's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Firstly, the UK education system is pretty good - link Secondly, by your logic, in population terms should we be copying somewhere like India, or for an even more ludicrous suggestion relating to surface area, the pacific ocean's education system? I agree that the IOM shouldn't just blindly follow whatever the UK does, but the fact is that we are bound to be closely aligned to the UK in many ways. Like it or not there is free movement between the 2 islands and the IOM does need to import comeovers for some roles - having a different education system may put some off from coming (which I realise you think is a good thing). In addition, many of the IOM's school leavers will seek higher education in the UK, and no matter what their regulations say, having A-levels makes it easier to get in, rather than having to persuade a university admissions tutor that your IOM 'highers', based on a hybrid Finnish/Korean model, are equivalent to 3 A's. My point about population and surface area were by way of illustrating that there is more to the world than the UK, I think you know this. I dispute that we are "bound to be closely aligned to the UK in many ways", bound by what exactly? Proximity? I'll give you that although it is a little short sighted if you ask me (literally). That is where we completely part company though. "Like it or not there is free movement between the 2 islands and the IOM does need to import comeovers for some roles - having a different education system may put some off from coming (which I realise you think is a good thing). " For a vast majority of people there is free movement between the IOM & many other places (most of Europe for a start) and I have never said anything about not liking it, quite the opposite infact. I am fully aware that the IOM does need to import comeovers for some roles - what I am not aware of is any reason why they have to come from the UK. Having a different education system may well put some off from coming, another good reason not to align ourselves too closely to such a small part of the world. I would also be grateful if you could point out anything I've said (ever) that makes you think that I think putting comeovers off from moving here is a good thing? I may well have questioned (& still do) the idea of encouraging so many people from the same place to move here & I certainly question the wisdom of encouraging people to move here purely so they can pay less tax, but I have absolutely no problem with anyone who wants to move here doing so. I take your point about A levels making it easier to access UK universities, however there are viable alternatives, Scottish Highers don't seem to cause problems & there are various international qualifications which could be investigated, there are afterall hundred of thousands of overseas students in UK universities every year. Or we could just pop it in the "too hard" pile & take the easy way out regardless of whether better alternatives exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebees Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 keep computer stuff, get rid off cooking (at junior level).Like you say, not all parents are as good as you appear to be. The schools need to teach those subjects early on. Otherwise your kids will be held back later on while the kids without such hands on parents catch up. We've got a bit of this too, big on the computing at home and my lads coding Python and hosting his own public minecraft server. ICT's a bit of a let down for him, as he's so far ahead. It's the same with music, all mine play (oldest has her second grade 8 exam tomorrow, gulp), and so Music classes are a bit of a waste of time for them. Does take the pressure off later on though, as the harder stuff shouldn't be so challenging. Bahh, I was leading you into my homophone........it was a typo if I'm honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 @Monkeyboy Bound by proximity, as you say, but probably more importantly by language. And that also explains why we tend to import comeovers predominantly from the UK. My point about you not wanting comeovers is in response to the general tone of many of your posts - for example your initial response to Keith in this thread. Certainly not an isolated example. You may want people to come and live here, but you seem to rail against them on a regular basis if they happen to disagree with things Manx. Thousands of overseas students in UK universities - doesn't that sort of argue against your own point? If the UK education system wasn't very good they wouldn't come. I know there's a difference between higher education and school education, but in the same vein there are many overseas students at UK public schools. I suppose I'm not that qualified to comment on the education system here. I've got bright kids, and the likelihood is that they'd do OK in whatever education system they found themselves, backed up by supportive parents. The system should be judged by how well it does for all children. Surely, unless we align ourselves with a decent system nearby (i.e. the UK), no-one will be able to assess whether we're any good or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samster Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Not really about schools but perhaps I could add my tuppence worth about Nurseries in IOM. I moved here recently and took my child out of nursery in UK to put in nursery here (part time) The nurseries in UK had learning programmes and my child learnt lots of stuff like numbers letters, writing etc. Since moving here my child has has effectively stopped learning as the nurseries here are just child minding services with no learning programmes monitored. Perhaps the IOM gov could look into this as there is a huge difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I moved here recently and took my child out of nursery in UK to put in nursery here (part time) Bet that has proved more convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
player Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Education system 'envy of colleagues in UK' - you'd have to wonder what they saw?? Did they see some of our 'special units' where we baby-sit our youngsters, where low expectations are endemic ? did they look at how we are implementing our dyslexia policy? did they think it's a great idea we self- monitor throughout our system? were they very envious that we don't have to implement legislation? or that we don't have to offer a meaningful education to our children once they leave these 'special units'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Samster, a nursery is about becoming a human being and interacting, not learning numbers and words. In some countries that doesn't even start until the kids are 6 or 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Samster, a nursery is about becoming a human being and interacting, not learning numbers and words. In some countries that doesn't even start until the kids are 6 or 7. Couldn't agree more. This whole idea of a 'pre-school curriculum' with standardised tests is nonsense. Nursery aged kids should be playing in the sandpit and being read stories. If your kids are ready for reading and numbers, do it at home. Scandinavian kids don't start until they're 7, and before then just play. And Finland has one of the best education systems in the world, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Samster, a nursery is about becoming a human being and interacting, not learning numbers and words. In some countries that doesn't even start until the kids are 6 or 7. Couldn't agree more. This whole idea of a 'pre-school curriculum' with standardised tests is nonsense. Nursery aged kids should be playing in the sandpit and being read stories. If your kids are ready for reading and numbers, do it at home. Scandinavian kids don't start until they're 7, and before then just play. And Finland has one of the best education systems in the world, apparently. Nah. Our economic system needs its drones educated and trained from an earlier age....prepares them for the chimney climbing from the off....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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