Education system 'envy of colleagues in UK'

[Cronky]

Manx Radio:

 

Delegation of Headteachers visiting Island

http://www.manxradio.com/newsread.aspx?id=71690

 

A delegation of twenty-eight head teachers is visiting the Island.

 

. . . The heads’ trip has been organised by the National Union of Teachers and came about as a result of a visit by Beth Davies, NUT president, and Simon Jones, NUT National Executive Member, in February.

Mr Jones, who is leading the return visit, has praised the Manx system claiming "it's the envy of colleagues in the UK."

 

I can quite see why teachers in the UK envy teachers in the Isle of Man because the monitoring and assessment of teachers here is much less stringent. But I really don't think the education system is the envy of parents in the UK. The standards are way too low and the lack of an aspirational culture really does show.

 

But why do so few people question the mantra that the Island has 'the best education system in the UK'? Have people been told it so often that they believe it without question?

[Thomas Jefferson]

How can we have the best education system in a foreign country? I think we should do away with all connection to the UK education system and stop comparing ourselves to them.

[Keith]

How can we have the best education system in a foreign country? I think we should do away with all connection to the UK education system and stop comparing ourselves to them.

 

Would you introduce a completely new curriculum and have an Isle of Man GCSE/A Level examination system, then try to convince UK universities that our exams are worth something? Would a Manx 'A' Level be equivalent to a UK 'A' Level? And if so, why go to the added expense of setting them locally in the first place? Or would we do away with the connection to the UK altogether and Manx students would have to go to the University of Mann for their degree education?

[Monkey boy]

 

How can we have the best education system in a foreign country? I think we should do away with all connection to the UK education system and stop comparing ourselves to them.

 

Would you introduce a completely new curriculum and have an Isle of Man GCSE/A Level examination system, then try to convince UK universities that our exams are worth something? Would a Manx 'A' Level be equivalent to a UK 'A' Level? And if so, why go to the added expense of setting them locally in the first place? Or would we do away with the connection to the UK altogether and Manx students would have to go to the University of Mann for their degree education?

Another comeover who thinks you fall off the end of the world if you pass the White Cliffs of Dover

[Thomas Jefferson]

Would you introduce a completely new curriculum and have an Isle of Man GCSE/A Level examination system, then try to convince UK universities that our exams are worth something?

 

Yes.

 

Would a Manx 'A' Level be equivalent to a UK 'A' Level?

 

Why would we keep A levels? I refer you to the University of Oxford's guidelines on accepted international qualifications.

 

http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/international-students/international-qualifications

 

And if so, why go to the added expense of setting them locally in the first place?

 

Why would it be an added expense? If we're ever to be an independent sovereign nation, we need to have control of our own education system, including the curriculum.

 

Or would we do away with the connection to the UK altogether and Manx students would have to go to the University of Mann for their degree education?

 

Not at all. I am all for a Manx university but students who excel should go to the best university possible. At the moment, the best universities are in the U.S. and U.K. and students who go there should be encouraged and incentivised to teach at the Manx university so we can also build up a world class university. We have to progress this in steps. You can't create a world class university overnight.

[The Border Terrier]

 

Would you introduce a completely new curriculum and have an Isle of Man GCSE/A Level examination system, then try to convince UK universities that our exams are worth something?

 

Yes.

 

>Would a Manx 'A' Level be equivalent to a UK 'A' Level?

 

Why would we keep A levels? I refer you to the University of Oxford's guidelines on accepted international qualifications.

 

http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/international-students/international-qualifications

 

And if so, why go to the added expense of setting them locally in the first place?

 

Why would it be an added expense? If we're ever to be an independent sovereign nation, we need to have control of our own education system, including the curriculum.

 

Or would we do away with the connection to the UK altogether and Manx students would have to go to the University of Mann for their degree education?

 

Not at all. I am all for a Manx university but students who excel should go to the best university possible. At the moment, the best universities are in the U.S. and U.K. and students who go there should be encouraged and incentivised to teach at the Manx university so we can also build up a world class university. We have to progress this in steps. You can't create a world class university overnight.

 

 

>You can't create a world class university overnight.

 

Bearing in mind The Right Honourable Tim Crookall MHK is the Minister for Education and Children, how long do you think it would take to create a Manx university of truly world class standards?

 

And what would the approximate cost to achieve such a standard be?

 

Would it not be more cost effective to transfer such responsibilities to establishments that have a proven track record?

 

Would such a university be geared toward educating Manx students with a view to forwarding on into Manx employment; or to make money from 'foreign' students?

 

And what specialist subjects would the Manx university provide e.g. medicine, law, engineering, music, arts etc?

 

 

TBT.

[2bees]

Their schools must be really piss poor then.

[Thomas Jefferson]

TBT - If any of the things you listed were a stumbling block, there'd be no universities anywhere but Morocco.

 

There is nothing stopping the Isle of Man establishing a world class university eventually teaching any of the specialist subjects you mentioned. Every top university in the world started out from basic beginnings. Obviously it would be difficult but I did say in my post that students who excel should not be limited to a Manx university but should go to the best university available to them.

[thebees]

I've just been looking at the UK's national curriculum, it looks quite good, great stuff for the children to learn, I would do away with computer lessons, children do all that at home, same for art, there is a lot more to learn now than when I was at school so it would make sense to get rid of the 'fun stuff you can do at home" and make schools places of learning, play time is for playing. There should be nothing wrong with the schools in the UK and if there is.....only the heads to blame so they've kinda shot themselves in the foot there.

[Keith]

 

 

How can we have the best education system in a foreign country? I think we should do away with all connection to the UK education system and stop comparing ourselves to them.

 

Would you introduce a completely new curriculum and have an Isle of Man GCSE/A Level examination system, then try to convince UK universities that our exams are worth something? Would a Manx 'A' Level be equivalent to a UK 'A' Level? And if so, why go to the added expense of setting them locally in the first place? Or would we do away with the connection to the UK altogether and Manx students would have to go to the University of Mann for their degree education?

Another comeover who thinks you fall off the end of the world if you pass the White Cliffs of Dover

 

Thank you for the smilie and sweeping assumption. You want Isle of Man Government to set up a completely new curriculum, then set our own examinations board and you don't think for one moment that this will:

 

1. Cost more money (incase you've not noticed, we've not got any)
2. Lead to government incompetence/interference.

Who will set the exams? The teachers who delivered the course? Who will mark the exams? Would the children just pass their papers to the person sitting next to them? Who will monitor the standards were met? Perhaps another teacher at another school? No 'you scratch my back/cover my arse and I'll scratch your back' there?

 

I wouldn't want to walk blindly off the White Cliffs of Dover just so that we can demonstrate how independent we are. I'd prefer to improve the education for our children than to gamble with their futures. If you can demonstrate to me that this would not cost money that we don't have and would not lead to lower standards, then I'll happily support you.

 

I take it you would also do away with nurses belonging to the UK register (NMC) because we should have our own? Ditto doctors etc? Is the principle different?

[The Border Terrier]

TBT - If any of the things you listed were a stumbling block, there'd be no universities anywhere but Morocco.

 

There is nothing stopping the Isle of Man establishing a world class university eventually teaching any of the specialist subjects you mentioned. Every top university in the world started out from basic beginnings. Obviously it would be difficult but I did say in my post that students who excel should not be limited to a Manx university but should go to the best university available to them.

 

>Every top university in the world started out from basic beginnings.

 

But none would have selected Tim Crookall as their Chancellor..!

 

Again, from #6 above, how long do you think it would be before the IoM were competing with Oxbridge; what courses would you recommend specialising in?

 

And didn't a Prof at the Nunnery business school blow the budget and was forced to leave? Similarly with the International Hotel School at Port Erin, there was a right old how d'you do with that in recent memory. The Headmistress at Castle Rushen 'leaving in a hurry during term time' a few years back. The (University of Liverpool linked) Marine Biological station at Port Erin has closed.

 

Let's be realistic, the IoM hasn't got the best of track records in education.

 

Competition for Government funding may include Pinewood; The Sefton Group; Bus Vannin (to design and develop their own fleet of vehicles instead of buying off Mercedes); IoMSPC purchase outright to achieve competitive fares; perhaps an airline like Air Aurigny.

 

Or better still, why not re-invent the wheel and patent the outcome; if only the Right Honourable John Shimmin MHK hadn't proven incompetent had to leave his post at the DED, the royalties from this alone would sponsor IoM plc forever.

 

TBT.

[Slim]

Seems like many private schools are offering the International Baccalaureate now to make the choice of further education wider. While I think we should leverage as much as possible off the UK's curriculum as we really don't have the resources to be developing our own, if the IB is growing in popularity it should be considered at some point.

 

 

I'm not a fan of the new course fee grant policy of not offering any grant if the course is offered locally. Seems stupid to discourage kids who get on to the best courses simply because we have it on the timetable here.

 

Bee's: as usual you're off your face. Colouring in or playing Call of Duty at home isn't the equivalent of an education in Art or computing. It's not even close.

[thebees]

Slim, I think your children must be a bit older than mine, I'm talking about junior school aged children, sorry for any confusion.....last week my sons were using a compass/rule to draw triangles which brought about a discussion about angles and a whole world of other stuff, mandalas, celtic knots, 'scared' geometry and ancient monuments, I am a mine of useless but interesting information. After they'd messed about making shapes and looking at how the shapes worked etc, they coloured them in. We've made beads from air clay, papier mache masks for hop-tu-na, stained glass windows on jars - I am craft central man, I knit, sew, crochet, paint (loads of mediums), macrame & make tin punch stuff - it's ace & the boys join in. I was thinking more along the lines of Scratch, officey stuff, paint and mine craft than Call of Duty, but you're right we're (Mrbees) a pretty computer literate house, not all are. My children cook with me all the time, they have ideas for recipes & we experiment with their ideas (after discussion ofc) so, there's a lesson they could do away with, keep computer stuff, get rid of cooking (at junior level).

[Slim]

keep computer stuff, get rid off cooking (at junior level).

Like you say, not all parents are as good as you appear to be. The schools need to teach those subjects early on. Otherwise your kids will be held back later on while the kids without such hands on parents catch up.

 

We've got a bit of this too, big on the computing at home and my lads coding Python and hosting his own public minecraft server. ICT's a bit of a let down for him, as he's so far ahead. It's the same with music, all mine play (oldest has her second grade 8 exam tomorrow, gulp), and so Music classes are a bit of a waste of time for them. Does take the pressure off later on though, as the harder stuff shouldn't be so challenging.

[Monkey boy]

 

 

 

How can we have the best education system in a foreign country? I think we should do away with all connection to the UK education system and stop comparing ourselves to them.

 

Would you introduce a completely new curriculum and have an Isle of Man GCSE/A Level examination system, then try to convince UK universities that our exams are worth something? Would a Manx 'A' Level be equivalent to a UK 'A' Level? And if so, why go to the added expense of setting them locally in the first place? Or would we do away with the connection to the UK altogether and Manx students would have to go to the University of Mann for their degree education?

Another comeover who thinks you fall off the end of the world if you pass the White Cliffs of Dover

 

Thank you for the smilie and sweeping assumption. You want Isle of Man Government to set up a completely new curriculum, then set our own examinations board and you don't think for one moment that this will:

 

1. Cost more money (incase you've not noticed, we've not got any)
2. Lead to government incompetence/interference.

Who will set the exams? The teachers who delivered the course? Who will mark the exams? Would the children just pass their papers to the person sitting next to them? Who will monitor the standards were met? Perhaps another teacher at another school? No 'you scratch my back/cover my arse and I'll scratch your back' there?

 

I wouldn't want to walk blindly off the White Cliffs of Dover just so that we can demonstrate how independent we are. I'd prefer to improve the education for our children than to gamble with their futures. If you can demonstrate to me that this would not cost money that we don't have and would not lead to lower standards, then I'll happily support you.

 

I take it you would also do away with nurses belonging to the UK register (NMC) because we should have our own? Ditto doctors etc? Is the principle different?

I didn't say we should have our own anything, I simply implied that you appear not to be aware that a world exists outside the UK, a point which your response has illustrated very well.

If you'd really "prefer to improve the education for our children than to gamble with their futures" then why are you so preoccupied with aligning education standards with the UK of all places? It's not as if standards there are anything to write home about;

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/going-backwards-uk-literacy-and-numeracy-standards-slip-down-international-rankings-8979588.html

 

Blindly following the UK when it comes to educating our children, as with so many matters, is lazy, unimaginative and often needlessly costly & is certainly no guarantee of high standards .In many, many ways they are more unusual or have lower standards than us in world or even European terms & (as demonstrated by your good self) the UK & it's people often have a very unhealthy insular view of things.