Education system 'envy of colleagues in UK'

[player]

Although the British pre-school curriculum acknowledges the use of learning through play, it also emphasises goals and assessing the child's progress. The Swedish system is more concerned with guidelines and basic values such as care and consideration towards others, solidarity, gender equality and tolerance, none of which can be measured on an academic level.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2008/mar/11/children

 

 

I imagine it's the goals and assessing part Samster is referring to.

[Thomas Jefferson]

My mother taught me to read, write and do arithmetic before I even went to nursery. A lot of younger mothers now just expect someone else to do it for them -- after all, everything else gets handed to them on a plate, complements of the IOM taxpayer.

[ballaughbiker]

Since moving here my child has has effectively stopped learning as the nurseries here are just child minding services with no learning programmes monitored.

We had proper pre-school here until they decided to shut them all to save money. Now we have the problem you describe, teachers made redundant and it apparently has cost more. It would be slightly amusing if kid's education and teacher's careers wasn't involved. In reality it's somewhat tragic.

 

GD4 and wrighty - of course social interaction and integration is more important than academic factors in pre-school. However I think your concept of pre-school doesn't match what we had (prior to the Dept of Ed. bailing out) at all. I understand there was plenty of playing in the sandpit and being read stories but surely if you could take a child in nappies, teach it to wipe its ass, play with others in the sandpit and recognise a few numbers and letters (one or two managing simple addition and recognising a few simple words) that's good innit?

 

Are you *really* suggesting that just because other countries do 'it' differently that those bright kids should be held back and made to stay in the sandpit??? C'mon..... they might be potential Consultant Orthopaedic Surgeons.

[Thomas Jefferson]

Are you *really* suggesting that just because other countries do 'it' differently that those bright kids should be held back and made to stay in the sandpit??? C'mon..... they might be potential Consultant Orthopaedic Surgeons.

 

What a coincidence. Holding back bright kids is the reason the education system exists.

[wrighty]

@BB - Not at all. The problem with target setting in education, especially pre-school when the 11 months potential age difference in a single year group has a massive effect, is that it tends to mediocrity. I went to a nursery school which was more about playing with lego and painting, but the teachers there recognised me as a potential consultant orthopaedic surgeon and asked my mother if they could teach me to read. My mum told them that I already could, and they took it from there. Had I been forced to do some government set curriculum, I'd have been far more bored.

 

So it's not about holding kids back until they're seven, but more about giving teachers the flexibility to treat the young children as individuals. Once targets come into it, as soon as a bright kid has hit them there's nothing more to be done and stagnation ensues.

[ballaughbiker]

Ok that's clearer but I think you are underestimating the skill of the teachers that the service had. They weren't working to a rigid government curriculum at all but using their professional skill to assess the kid's abilities. I'm sure they were more than capable of sussing out those that need help without holding back potential high flyers and acted accordingly. The 'curriculum' was I understand just a framework to use to aid child assessment with record keeping and as a means of identifying the quicker children. It was not a rigid system that had to be adhered to no matter what. Those that were sharp were definitely progressed rather than held back.

 

My mother taught me to read at a very early age as well as the times tables but not all kids have parents that can do that for various reasons. I went to pre-school at 3 and coming from a remote farm as an only child definately changed me for the better and got me ready for school in many ways.

 

TJ you do talk absolute bollox at times. Are you serious with post #35 or just winding us up again?

[wrighty]

BB, I think we're talking at cross-purposes. I was referring to the UK curriculum, which I've heard about on Radio 4 but have no experience of, where they're planning to introduce SAT style testing and league tables for pre-schools. I have no knowledge of whatever system we had here on the IOM and have since lost - my eldest two were school age when we came over, and my youngest went to a pre-school in the local church hall, which I at least viewed as some sort of playgroup.

[ballaughbiker]

Just a general point, I have been told that recruitment of teachers is difficult here. That hardly matches the suggestion in the thread title.

[GD4ELI]

Oddly enough competition for teaching jobs in Cornwall is fierce, brutal...

[The Sick Moon]

Scandinavian kids don't start until they're 7, and before then just play. And Finland has one of the best education systems in the world, apparently.

 

And free for all from the age of eight months. But then the Scandinavians don't seem to mind the high taxes required to pay for it all.

[manxie44]

Manx Radio:

 

Delegation of Headteachers visiting Island

http://www.manxradio.com/newsread.aspx?id=71690

 

 

A delegation of twenty-eight head teachers is visiting the Island.

 

. . . The heads’ trip has been organised by the National Union of Teachers and came about as a result of a visit by Beth Davies, NUT president, and Simon Jones, NUT National Executive Member, in February.

Mr Jones, who is leading the return visit, has praised the Manx system claiming "it's the envy of colleagues in the UK."

I can quite see why teachers in the UK envy teachers in the Isle of Man because the monitoring and assessment of teachers here is much less stringent. But I really don't think the education system is the envy of parents in the UK. The standards are way too low and the lack of an aspirational culture really does show.

 

But why do so few people question the mantra that the Island has 'the best education system in the UK'? Have people been told it so often that they believe it without question?

Why is our Island in such a state ( endless CM & COM comments) if we have these continual confirmations from groups from the UK that the Island has the best of everything. Cuts in education, health, police and many more are mabye due to these affirmations that we can carry on with the cut, why would we need all these teachers etc if we are so good?

[Donald Trumps]

This is the great dilemma - how is it that with the best civil service in the world we are in such a shit financial position?

 

Civil servants would argue that the politicians won't listen to them

 

Politicians would argue that they have to have someone to blame when things go wrong

 

Is there a simple, workable answer?

[GD4ELI]

DT - how about letting Cornwall annex the rock? Shouldn't be any complaints, after all Cornwall's a Celtic nation (apparently).

[Donald Trumps]

There are many similarities between Cornwall & the island

 

But by God the publicans are miserable down there when they think you're English

[Monkey boy]

@Monkeyboy

 

Bound by proximity, as you say, but probably more importantly by language. And that also explains why we tend to import comeovers predominantly from the UK.

 

My point about you not wanting comeovers is in response to the general tone of many of your posts - for example your initial response to Keith in this thread. Certainly not an isolated example. You may want people to come and live here, but you seem to rail against them on a regular basis if they happen to disagree with things Manx.

 

Thousands of overseas students in UK universities - doesn't that sort of argue against your own point? If the UK education system wasn't very good they wouldn't come. I know there's a difference between higher education and school education, but in the same vein there are many overseas students at UK public schools.

 

I suppose I'm not that qualified to comment on the education system here. I've got bright kids, and the likelihood is that they'd do OK in whatever education system they found themselves, backed up by supportive parents. The system should be judged by how well it does for all children. Surely, unless we align ourselves with a decent system nearby (i.e. the UK), no-one will be able to assess whether we're any good or not.

Again there are many places in the world aside from the UK who share a common language with us so it goes no way to explain why we import comeovers predominantly from the UK.

 

The tens of thousands of overseas students I was referring to are in higher education which is not what was being discussed. I am not aware of there being similar numbers of overseas student in state schools so it says absolutely nothing about pre-university education standards whatsoever. I don't see any relevance in UK public schools either.

 

The irony of your comments about me not liking comeovers is almost laughable. Take your example of my initial response to Keith. Keith was ridiculing someone who had suggested that maybe we shouldn't align ourselves with the UK education system, being totally ignorant to the possibility that suitable or even better alternatives could exist. Your own posts have followed suit. So far your reasons for us following the UK (English) system are; Proximity & language, despite the fact that there are at least two more countries at least as proximate & with the same language.

The one thing that I do regularly object to (which you interpret as a dislike of comeovers) is comeovers from the UK who openly and constantly criticise anything or everything different here than in the UK and constantly compare things to there.

 

I have never had the same experience with a comeover from anywhere but the UK. Also you describe my criticism of this sort of behaviour as if I'm some kind of lunatic fringe saying I "rail against them if they happen to disagree with anything Manx", I'd certainly like to see any examples of this.

I'd also like to see an example of any other country in the world that would accept over 50% of the population being made up of 1st generation immigrants from the UK openly, publically and constantly belittling any differences from the UK with immunity from any criticism in response.

 

The real irony is the "railing against me" that you have done for daring to suggest that the possibilty of aligning ourselves with anywhere else but the UK in education terms. I don't even think you realise you're doing it. I accept your reasons of proximity and language however I suspect the real reason is more because it's where you come from & and have the common attitude of superior self importance that often goes with it.