TheTeapot Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 I'm not very keen on answering really fucking stupid questions from disgusting people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 56 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: I'm not very keen on answering really fucking stupid questions from disgusting people. It's hardly a stupid question. Simply because if you tried to look dispassionately at the situation, as I do, you would realise that the only way to rid Gaza of the murderous thugs of Hamas, which is made up of Palestinians, is to go in and root them out. Sure that doesn't sit well with your "Israelis = bad, Palestinians = good" ethos but tragically there is no other way. If there was another way the IDF would be using it. Especially if it meant they took fewer casualties. And all the while this is going on the Palestinians are still indiscriminately firing rockets into Israel to try and kill Israeli citizens. Like they've been doing for the last twenty years ffs! I don't recall the likes of you ever complaining about that salient fact. Why is that I wonder? Incidentally all this talk about "single state" or "two state" so called "solutions" to the "refugee" problem have been well and truly bollocksed by the sheer brutality of the assault. That was celebrated the world over by the Palestinian diaspora. Disgusting people aren't they? To actually celebrate all those brutal murders... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 hours ago, P.K. said: Sure that doesn't sit well with your "Israelis = bad, Palestinians = good" ethos but tragically there is no other way. If there was another way the IDF would be using it. Especially if it meant they took fewer casualties. I don't think I have read one comment on this thread that suggests that Israeli's are bad and Palestinians are good. I cannot answer on behalf of @TheTeapot but the reality is that Hamas have committed terrible atrocities and Israel is entitled to defend itself. The problem, as we all know, is how. The Israeli Government have taken the approach of flattening everything whilst apparently giving sufficient warning for civilians to move to safety. Hamas have certainly tried to hamper that but as you keep pointing out Gaza is not a big place. There are not that many places of safety left. We know from other countries, such as Afghanistan, that rooting out extremists is not a quick or easy protest. We also know that extremists will use the response as propaganda to call even more people to their view. Let us not forget that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. I know it is easy to point at Hamas, Hezbollah, the IRA and say that they are (or were) terrorists but would you apply the same description to the resistance in France, Norway etc in the second world war? It appears that you have come to the conclusion that the only way to resolve this is to wipe out Gaza and it's population (or at best have them magically move to another Arab nation). I cannot come to that same conclusion but neither will I say that Israeli's are "bad". I do, however, question the Israeli Government and whether it has now gone beyond defence and into something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 I'm not the one openly calling for mass murder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 48 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: I'm not the one openly calling for mass murder Neither am I. Unlike the Palestinians of Hamas who did exactly that. Much to the delight of the world-wide Palestinian diaspora. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you..." - you have heard of this no doubt... 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: It appears that you have come to the conclusion that the only way to resolve this is to wipe out Gaza and it's population (or at best have them magically move to another Arab nation). I cannot come to that same conclusion but neither will I say that Israeli's are "bad". I do, however, question the Israeli Government and whether it has now gone beyond defence and into something else. The fact remains that Gaza is not and never will be a viable entity. There are just too many people crammed into too small a space which is why most of them are living off handouts. Egypt originally created the enclave to give refugees fleeing the surrounding Arab nations first attempted destruction of the fledgling State of Israel somewhere of relative safety until they had completed the job and pushed the Israelis into the sea. Well, who knew... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, P.K. said: The fact remains that Gaza is not and never will be a viable entity. There are just too many people crammed into too small a space which is why most of them are living off handouts. Egypt originally created the enclave to give refugees fleeing the surrounding Arab nations first attempted destruction of the fledgling State of Israel somewhere of relative safety until they had completed the job and pushed the Israelis into the sea. Well, who knew... Again you oversimplify... I am not expert but the history of that whole region is problematic with power shifting between different groups over centuries. This didn't all start at the end of the second world war but the creation of the modern Israel was never going to go down well with the neighbouring countries and the people who were already living their. To then say that Egypt created the enclave and caused the problems is to somewhat misrepresent the reality. I genuinely believe that Israel was created for good reasons but I have no doubt that there was also some geo-politics at play. I could also argue, using your example, that given the history of Israel since 1948 that it will never be a viable entity as it will always be at risk from some of the neighbouring states who remain hostile to its creation. I don not believe that there are any easy solutions to this but genocide and killing of innocent civilians (by any party involved) is certainly not going to be the answer. That route only breeds more hatred, anger and desire for revenge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 30 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: To then say that Egypt created the enclave and caused the problems is to somewhat misrepresent the reality. So what is your understanding of the situation? I suppose you could argue that the problems began when "control" of Gaza passed to Israel with the signing of the accord with Egypt that cost President Anwar Sadat his life. 32 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I don not believe that there are any easy solutions to this but genocide and killing of innocent civilians (by any party involved) is certainly not going to be the answer. That route only breeds more hatred, anger and desire for revenge. Too late for that. Why else do Palestinians join the terrorist organisation known as Hamas...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, P.K. said: So what is your understanding of the situation? That it is a centuries old problem but at one point Jews, Christians and Muslims all lived together in what we know as Israel. Why is that no longer possible? I honestly don't know. 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Why else do Palestinians join the terrorist organisation known as Hamas...? So your solution is what? Wipe out all Palestinians? Should the UK killed all the Irish because of the IRA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 The US didn't veto a ceasefire call. That's a big step. The United Nations has finally united enough nations to pass some kind of ceasefire resolution, for what its worth. Israel, in its wrath, has damaged its own future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 4 hours ago, P.K. said: Why else do Palestinians join the terrorist organisation known as Hamas...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 4 hours ago, manxman1980 said: So your solution is what? Wipe out all Palestinians? Should the UK killed all the Irish because of the IRA? Now you're just being ridiculous. Interestingly the Catholic population in NI has recently exceeded the Protestants. They will be voters in 18 years time but still unable to gain an outright majority. So what is your solution to Gaza? After all, their position is untenable without basic aid like food. Lots of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 @HeliX Totally unimpressed. You know as well as I do that Palestinians are weaned on a hatred of Israel and all things Israeli. That's how Hezbollah are such a potent force in Lebanon. Incidentally how do you stand on the indiscriminate rockets fired into Israel by the Palestinians for the last 20 years or so. Presumably you support them...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 5 hours ago, P.K. said: Now you're just being ridiculous. Interestingly the Catholic population in NI has recently exceeded the Protestants. They will be voters in 18 years time but still unable to gain an outright majority. The IRA was a terrorist organisation and killed many British citizens in Northern Ireland and England. Why wad it acceptable to negotiate peace with Sinn Fein (once known as the political wing of the IRA)? Why in your mind is/was the IRA different from Hamas? 5 hours ago, P.K. said: So what is your solution to Gaza? I have told you already. I don't know bur the starting point is to stop the killing on both sides. What is your proposed solution in Gaza and Israel? Stop trying to deflect and answer the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 hours ago, manxman1980 said: The IRA was a terrorist organisation and killed many British citizens in Northern Ireland and England. Why wad it acceptable to negotiate peace with Sinn Fein (once known as the political wing of the IRA)? Why in your mind is/was the IRA different from Hamas? I have told you already. I don't know bur the starting point is to stop the killing on both sides. What is your proposed solution in Gaza and Israel? Stop trying to deflect and answer the question. You're the one deflecting with your constant references to the Troubles which were completely different. For a start the last time I looked the Six Counties were not an untenable refugee camp full of stateless people! My solution is simple. All the killing would instantly stop if Hamas and Islamic Jihad surrendered and gave up their Israeli hostages. But they don't seem to want to do that. It's almost as if they don't care that their actions have brought death and destruction across all of Gaza. And if they don't care about their fellow Palestinians then you have to wonder why should anyone else...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 @P.K. you really think those remaining hostages are still alive? Between the brutality of Hamas and the actions of the Israeli Government I suspect they are all dead. Killing more people won't bring anyone back. Getting around a table might just save some lives though. The parallel I am drawing with Northern Ireland is how different terrorist organisations are viewed. How did the war on terror in Afghanistan go? Did the West get rid of ISIS? How about Al Queda? Fighting military campaigns against terrorist groups is not very effective unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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