TT Miracle: Moffatt says something I agree with

[rmanx]

 

 

 

 

What is not fine is us tacitly attracting thousands of wannabees over with the promise they can ride the course at unlimited speeds. If it's all about the races, and the fans watching them and soaking up the atmosphere, and not really about being able to ride over the mountain at 150 without losing your license, then let's see a properly enforced speed limit for the fortnight, with severe penalties for those exceeding. I suspect visitor numbers, and visitor fatalities, would drop dramatically.

This is sort of where I'm coming from and the reason I've had it with everything now; and can you imagine what it will be like if we grow the event to get another 10,000 bikers over as the new marketing agency has been tasked to deliver? It's not a good investment. It's an investment into further death and misery. Without those sort of restrictions we cannot police and control the number of bikes or the speed, and if those restrictions start having to be applied anyway a lot fewer will start coming. How many road deaths are we up to now? Four? And the event hasn't really started yet. But it's all the locals fault don't forget reading the Police tweets; were just drunken, fighting, speeding, careless idiots who seem to deliberately wait for these two weeks of the year to get drunk and disorderly and kill people on the roads.

Ask for Police records and you will find that ' Locals ' have played a major part in accidents and bad behavior at TT time for many years Nothing new in this , the sad part is that the ' Locals ' should play a huge part in demonstrating friendliness and good behavior at TT time , both on and off the roads. Anyone who knows anything about the TT fans will tell you that in general they are a grand group of people, fun loving, friendly and well behaved. That is not a biased view, it is one gained by 60 plus years of contact with TT fans. I do however believe that ' local ' behavior has become worse and worse, and yes , it has been over the past thirty years . Work that out for yourself

trouble is, if you don't like bikes, there's not a great deal else to do other than get bladdered. it's a tradition

Yeh not a great deal els to do...... except watch tv, play computer games, get s job, go out and exercise, join a gym, go camping, try a new hobby like landscape painting, join a library, visit heritage sites, form groups and play music together, volunteer for charity, sunbathe, listen to music, talk to each other about important things, stand for election, learn to drive, learn to knit, write poetry, go birdwatching, climb hills, go swimming, chill to a few joints etc etc etc x 1,000,000 million other things they could do aside from get pissed.

 

 

I don't think people are coming for the Islands knitting circles.

 

Beer, bikes and balls out speed are the only selling points of the TT.

[notwell]

 

To suggest the people on ( and off the Island ) make money out of death , is disgusting

The sport is dangerous, people get entertainment from watching dangerous things (boxing, bull fighting, etc), people come to the island because we host a dangerous sport, people make money from people coming to watch the dangerous sport.

 

Whether it sits with your conscience or not, because people die, people are indirectly making money from it.

Not because people die.

 

If you could guarantee today no deaths in the races for ten years you wouldn't suddenly see a slump in visitors.

 

People dont visit here to watch people die. That is simply bollocks

[Billy the Kid]

You're right people don't come here to see people die, but unfortunately a few people come over here and die every year because of the TT.

[Shake me up Judy]

Bernie's comments are controversial, but he's always spoken a plain man's language. Given that the carnage has gone on year after year, he's entitled to his view. Had the T.T. only seen occasional fatalities, or if it was a relatively new event, then I think his remarks could legitimately be refuted. I don't agree with the way he put it, but I can't argue with his point of view; not least when you consider the ongoing and constant silence of our politicians whenever the subject is raised. There are many things I love about the T.T. but we sometimes need to grow up a bit. Sticking our heads in the sands is something we should have stopped doing a long time ago.

[Monkey boy]

 

 

The IOM needs to pay for defence. That's a fact. it's hardly like we can conduct our own is it?

 

 

There is no link to death whatsoever in this context. It's a really poor analogy.

Defence from what? We pay the UK £3M annually for defence despite the fact we haven't needed defending from anything for hundreds of years. a majority of that £3M goes to the UK armed forces who due to UK foreign policy have been involved in conflicts pretty much every year in living memory causing many times more deaths each year that the TT has in over a hundred.

 

No analogy needed death is death.

 

Wow. It must be brilliant being as fucking clueless as you are.

 

Just so I can get this right, your suggestion is that we pay nothing whatsoever to the UK and in return we are fair game for ANYONE who wants to come in and declare the island theirs? Or of course fund our own defence.

 

To give you some context - it's 10p a day per person to have the protection of the UK Armed Forces and of course allow our own people to serve their country.

 

As i said, there is no comparison between the commitments of the Armed Forces (and deaths associated in the line of duty/their job) and deaths related to a largely amateur motor sport event. None at all.

 

Yes there is - a dead body is a dead body, that's the comparison right there.

 

We are a peaceful nation, always have been - we don't need defending from anyone. Do you really believe that if we didn't pay the UK millions for defence we would suddenly become a target? And you call me clueless!

 

Contributing to the foreign policy of one of the most war mongering countries on the planet makes us a bigger target - and still we have no trouble.

 

When was the last time there was a credible threat to the national security of the IOM?

[Shake me up Judy]

WW1 and 2.

 

Sorry Monkey. I agree with you on many things but you're wrong here.

[Max Power]

 

What is not fine is us tacitly attracting thousands of wannabees over with the promise they can ride the course at unlimited speeds. If it's all about the races, and the fans watching them and soaking up the atmosphere, and not really about being able to ride over the mountain at 150 without losing your license, then let's see a properly enforced speed limit for the fortnight, with severe penalties for those exceeding. I suspect visitor numbers, and visitor fatalities, would drop dramatically.

This is sort of where I'm coming from and the reason I've had it with everything now; and can you imagine what it will be like if we grow the event to get another 10,000 bikers over as the new marketing agency has been tasked to deliver? It's not a good investment. It's an investment into further death and misery. Without those sort of restrictions we cannot police and control the number of bikes or the speed, and if those restrictions start having to be applied anyway a lot fewer will start coming. How many road deaths are we up to now? Four? And the event hasn't really started yet. But it's all the locals fault don't forget reading the Police tweets; were just drunken, fighting, speeding, careless idiots who seem to deliberately wait for these two weeks of the year to get drunk and disorderly and kill people on the roads.

 

This is where things get a little fuzzy. Cloud Nine have been saying that they will be concentrating on the non biker market by arranging attractions to bring people here while the TT is going on?

This shouldn't result in more bikes on the road?

 

I think we do have to grow up and take the view that we can't train some of the lunatics to behave themselves. We have to take measures to restrict what they get up to on our roads, it's not just their lives they are playing with, locals have to go about their business and shouldn't have to be scared to venture onto the roads. Other major motorcycle events all over the world operate in speed restricted areas and it doesn't stop riders attending!

[Max Power]

 

 

 

The IOM needs to pay for defence. That's a fact. it's hardly like we can conduct our own is it?

 

 

There is no link to death whatsoever in this context. It's a really poor analogy.

Defence from what? We pay the UK £3M annually for defence despite the fact we haven't needed defending from anything for hundreds of years. a majority of that £3M goes to the UK armed forces who due to UK foreign policy have been involved in conflicts pretty much every year in living memory causing many times more deaths each year that the TT has in over a hundred.

 

No analogy needed death is death.

 

Wow. It must be brilliant being as fucking clueless as you are.

 

Just so I can get this right, your suggestion is that we pay nothing whatsoever to the UK and in return we are fair game for ANYONE who wants to come in and declare the island theirs? Or of course fund our own defence.

 

To give you some context - it's 10p a day per person to have the protection of the UK Armed Forces and of course allow our own people to serve their country.

 

As i said, there is no comparison between the commitments of the Armed Forces (and deaths associated in the line of duty/their job) and deaths related to a largely amateur motor sport event. None at all.

 

Yes there is - a dead body is a dead body, that's the comparison right there.

 

We are a peaceful nation, always have been - we don't need defending from anyone. Do you really believe that if we didn't pay the UK millions for defence we would suddenly become a target? And you call me clueless!

 

Contributing to the foreign policy of one of the most war mongering countries on the planet makes us a bigger target - and still we have no trouble.

 

When was the last time there was a credible threat to the national security of the IOM?

 

If someone wanted to invade the IoM for any reason, it would pose a threat to UK National security and they would behave appropriately, whether we had paid up or not. Even if we were invaded and paid for defence, the response would need to be a considered one.

[dilligaf]

 

 

What is not fine is us tacitly attracting thousands of wannabees over with the promise they can ride the course at unlimited speeds. If it's all about the races, and the fans watching them and soaking up the atmosphere, and not really about being able to ride over the mountain at 150 without losing your license, then let's see a properly enforced speed limit for the fortnight, with severe penalties for those exceeding. I suspect visitor numbers, and visitor fatalities, would drop dramatically.

This is sort of where I'm coming from and the reason I've had it with everything now; and can you imagine what it will be like if we grow the event to get another 10,000 bikers over as the new marketing agency has been tasked to deliver? It's not a good investment. It's an investment into further death and misery. Without those sort of restrictions we cannot police and control the number of bikes or the speed, and if those restrictions start having to be applied anyway a lot fewer will start coming. How many road deaths are we up to now? Four? And the event hasn't really started yet. But it's all the locals fault don't forget reading the Police tweets; were just drunken, fighting, speeding, careless idiots who seem to deliberately wait for these two weeks of the year to get drunk and disorderly and kill people on the roads.

 

This is where things get a little fuzzy. Cloud Nine have been saying that they will be concentrating on the non biker market by arranging attractions to bring people here while the TT is going on?

This shouldn't result in more bikes on the road?

 

I think we do have to grow up and take the view that we can't train some of the lunatics to behave themselves. We have to take measures to restrict what they get up to on our roads, it's not just their lives they are playing with, locals have to go about their business and shouldn't have to be scared to venture onto the roads. Other major motorcycle events all over the world operate in speed restricted areas and it doesn't stop riders attending!

 

 

It's "Vision Nine", or is it "Cloud Cuckoo". One of the two. I'm sure Cloud Nine" wouldn't mind a few £million from us though

[Monkey boy]

The racing is fine - they know the risks etc. I've no problem with it continuing. I don't like to see the racers described as heroes or the bravest men on the planet etc. Those descriptions are usually reserved for people risking themselves to help others, not risking themselves and their family life in the pursuit of personal thrills.

 

What is not fine is us tacitly attracting thousands of wannabees over with the promise they can ride the course at unlimited speeds. If it's all about the races, and the fans watching them and soaking up the atmosphere, and not really about being able to ride over the mountain at 150 without losing your license, then let's see a properly enforced speed limit for the fortnight, with severe penalties for those exceeding. I suspect visitor numbers, and visitor fatalities, would drop dramatically.

 

Monkey Boy - I often appreciate your arguments as very thought provoking, but the comparison with military expenditure is spurious to say the least. Wars are not designed as spectator events to entertain, and the economic parallels that they are needed to keep jobs in the arms industry are really a bit 'tin-foil hat' territory.

I broadly agree with your first two paragraphs.

And your last paragraph TBH. However the "economic parallels"bit is not something I have ever said. Likewise economic expenditure on military action is not the main point of my argument. The OP mentioned he no longer finds deaths acceptable & we should stop pouring public money into the event that facilitates it. War - regardless of its suitability of comparison indubitably causes death (and on a far great scale than the TT) so why is that a more acceptable use of public money & why don't we have five or six threads a year on here calling for it to be banned?

 

I'll tell you why - because every one of these threads, every one of them are not motivated by saving lives - this particular one as it transpires is about the OP's concern for the negative PR it creates for the island (a fair and valid point), I just wish people would be honest about their motives from the start, that's all.

 

To be fair to Sultan, he has made some good points, and he's obviously not one of the many sock puppets who dislike the "death" because the races inconvenience them.

[Max Power]

 

 

 

What is not fine is us tacitly attracting thousands of wannabees over with the promise they can ride the course at unlimited speeds. If it's all about the races, and the fans watching them and soaking up the atmosphere, and not really about being able to ride over the mountain at 150 without losing your license, then let's see a properly enforced speed limit for the fortnight, with severe penalties for those exceeding. I suspect visitor numbers, and visitor fatalities, would drop dramatically.

This is sort of where I'm coming from and the reason I've had it with everything now; and can you imagine what it will be like if we grow the event to get another 10,000 bikers over as the new marketing agency has been tasked to deliver? It's not a good investment. It's an investment into further death and misery. Without those sort of restrictions we cannot police and control the number of bikes or the speed, and if those restrictions start having to be applied anyway a lot fewer will start coming. How many road deaths are we up to now? Four? And the event hasn't really started yet. But it's all the locals fault don't forget reading the Police tweets; were just drunken, fighting, speeding, careless idiots who seem to deliberately wait for these two weeks of the year to get drunk and disorderly and kill people on the roads.

 

This is where things get a little fuzzy. Cloud Nine have been saying that they will be concentrating on the non biker market by arranging attractions to bring people here while the TT is going on?

This shouldn't result in more bikes on the road?

 

I think we do have to grow up and take the view that we can't train some of the lunatics to behave themselves. We have to take measures to restrict what they get up to on our roads, it's not just their lives they are playing with, locals have to go about their business and shouldn't have to be scared to venture onto the roads. Other major motorcycle events all over the world operate in speed restricted areas and it doesn't stop riders attending!

 

 

It's "Vision Nine", or is it "Cloud Cuckoo". One of the two. I'm sure Cloud Nine" wouldn't mind a few £million from us though

 

I did know that

[Monkey boy]

WW1 and 2.

 

Sorry Monkey. I agree with you on many things but you're wrong here.

So you're saying we wouldn't have survived the wars if we didn't pay the UK for defence? Don't apologise

[Monkey boy]

 

What is not fine is us tacitly attracting thousands of wannabees over with the promise they can ride the course at unlimited speeds. If it's all about the races, and the fans watching them and soaking up the atmosphere, and not really about being able to ride over the mountain at 150 without losing your license, then let's see a properly enforced speed limit for the fortnight, with severe penalties for those exceeding. I suspect visitor numbers, and visitor fatalities, would drop dramatically.

This is sort of where I'm coming from and the reason I've had it with everything now; and can you imagine what it will be like if we grow the event to get another 10,000 bikers over as the new marketing agency has been tasked to deliver? It's not a good investment. It's an investment into further death and misery. Without those sort of restrictions we cannot police and control the number of bikes or the speed, and if those restrictions start having to be applied anyway a lot fewer will start coming. How many road deaths are we up to now? Four? And the event hasn't really started yet. But it's all the locals fault don't forget reading the Police tweets; were just drunken, fighting, speeding, careless idiots who seem to deliberately wait for these two weeks of the year to get drunk and disorderly and kill people on the roads.

 

I have sympathy with that & for the record I think Skelly is a half wit, and I think you can rest assured the additional 10K bikers will never happen.

 

To put thing into perspective though - two of the road deaths occured within a 40mph speed limit, one of which involved a local car & van. Motorcycling is inherently dangerous, you're not going to change that by changing the TT.

[notwell]

 

WW1 and 2.

 

Sorry Monkey. I agree with you on many things but you're wrong here.

So you're saying we wouldn't have survived the wars if we didn't pay the UK for defence? Don't apologise

Absolutely no one agrees with you. Stop digging.

[joebean]

Bernard Moffat has made a living from being controversial. The Celtic League has a membership of only a very small fraction of the Island but appears, from what comes from Bernard's mouth to have an opinion about everything. I have wondered on occasion whose opinions the Celtic League's mouthpiece is representing. I reached the conclusion some time ago that it is mainly his own. Personally, I am not really bothered about his opinions any more than any other person's. What he is saying is his own moral judgement about something that he has no direct involvement in, or knowledge of. He is entitled, of course to have his own opinion but it is no more valid than that of anybody else and certainly no more valid than the individual opinions of the competitors who choose to come here and race.

 

Every death is a tragedy. But every death in every human activity that did not intend death as a consequence is also a tragedy. If we are to get dewy-eyed and emotional about every death that occurs in such circumstances and feel that we have the right or duty to protect other sentient individuals from risking their lives we have a long, long list of activities to stop and control. What would our lives be if they were risk-free? Dull and very limited, I would think. Comparisons with armed forces and war are simply erroneous. To connect the complex decision making and circumstances behind international conflicts and the defence of freedom against tyranny with the TT is just Simpleton thinking.

 

The TT is a matter of individual choice. In my view it will fade into history when there are insufficient competitors willing to accept the challenge and risk that it demands. I guess that is a long way off and I, personally, am glad of it.