finlo Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, woolley said: @ Finlo: Sorry if that was confusing. I meant Cummal Mooar is Govt, I think. I know Kings Reach is private. There both too much hassle to bring up to spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 Christ if a private company can't make it work to regs with the prices charged then jesus wept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 45 minutes ago, notwell said: Well it's unlikely to close. They'll spend to put it right. Unfortunately throwing money at a problem in the vain hope of putting it right, doesnt always work, especially if it's tax or ratepayers cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaipyr Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 37 minutes ago, finlo said: There both too much hassle to bring up to spec. Who's spec - IOM Government's, UK's or EU's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 7 hours ago, notwell said: Well it's unlikely to close. They'll spend to put it right. nah, they'll close it and it will be a government 'saving' in the very short term before they are subsidising the private sector to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I don't think that will be the case for two reasons. Firstly if Kings Reach has closed that creates a capacity problem. Secondly government recently purchased a care home for that exact reason. If Cummal Mooar doesn't meet current standards then they'll simply need to spend so that it does. Long term nursing care really should be something government invest more into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I agree long term nursing care should be invested in, but not all buildings are capable of being upgraded to current spec. it would be better to drop the building and start again with a new build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 48 minutes ago, notwell said: I don't think that will be the case for two reasons. Firstly if Kings Reach has closed that creates a capacity problem. Secondly government recently purchased a care home for that exact reason. If Cummal Mooar doesn't meet current standards then they'll simply need to spend so that it does. Long term nursing care really should be something government invest more into. It's not allways that simple, that's why Glenside was dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Wasn't Cummal Mooar purpose built? It wasn't a conversion of an existing property. What standards isn't it currently meeting that would prohibit it operating? Also, isn't there another one there on the promenade side? Cooil ny Maree or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 10 minutes ago, notwell said: Wasn't Cummal Mooar purpose built? It wasn't a conversion of an existing property. What standards isn't it currently meeting that would prohibit it operating? Also, isn't there another one there on the promenade side? Cooil ny Maree or something like that? Kings reach was purpose built too but time's change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellefield Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I always thought kings reach was sheltered accommodation, I hadn't realised there was also a care home attached. Are the sheltered accommodation folk effected by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 24 minutes ago, Bellefield said: I always thought kings reach was sheltered accommodation, I hadn't realised there was also a care home attached. Are the sheltered accommodation folk effected by this? Not that i'm aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 8 hours ago, Tarne said: Christ if a private company can't make it work to regs with the prices charged then jesus wept. It's not the care business that is the problem, Tarne, it is the underlying structure of debt. This is a typical example of the excesses of unregulated capitalism that have been allowed to wreck whole sectors of the economy, particularly some of the private equity ventures. In the case of Four Seasons who own Kings Reach it has been a question of mismanagement and overpayment for equity by a series of investors when the care game looked like a licence to print money. When it turns bad, naturally, the customer pays the price in increased costs and, eventually, closure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Seasons_Health_Care https://www.ft.com/content/bfbfaff4-0c5b-11e6-b0f1-61f222853ff3?mhq5j=e1 The care home sector more generally has been plagued for almost 20 years by highly leveraged takeovers by investors looking to make a fast buck. Often, they have split off the properties and care divisions into separate companies and sold both on, walking away smartly with the booty. Then, the rents and thus the charges have been hiked sky high to pay the interest on the money that the sharp investors made off with. The financial model is a similar story to what happened with Woolworths or indeed the Steam Packet but in the case of care homes it is often the vulnerable elderly who suffer. An absolute scandal, and of course, huge amounts of public money poured into paying for it. As I said in my last post, it should not be allowed. Care homes should be trusts in the third sector. Homes should have charitable status and charge for cost of care and maintenance, not for profit (or loss). The public money that has been, and is being, wasted on the current rotten structure would be better spent contributing to such non-profit organisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I'm not sure that it's the capital structure and debt that are directly the issue. It's more a question of when built the minimum areas per single or double room were x & y and there wasn't a requirement that they be ensuite. Door widths weren't required to be as wide, nor corridors etc. Now respecified, for comfort, dignity, accessibility and health and safety of residents and staff and, most importantly, evacuation in emergency, it simply isn't always physically possible to reconfigure. Of course, if you are over borrowed you may not have the cash in any event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 1 hour ago, notwell said: Wasn't Cummal Mooar purpose built? It wasn't a conversion of an existing property. What standards isn't it currently meeting that would prohibit it operating? Also, isn't there another one there on the promenade side? Cooil ny Maree or something like that? Cummal Moore is the one on the promenade. Cooil Ny Marrey is behind it on Waterloo Road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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