llap Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, fatshaft said: No, if they were getting food at less than break even, it's subsidised, if it's running at break even then by definition it clearly isn't subsidised, it's just cheap in comparison to open market values The fact that they operate at "break-even" and therefore charge a lower price for their food isn't the full picture, though, is it? They're not really operating at break-even, as that doesn't factor in numerous other costs which a private business would have to pay (e.g. staff wages, property rental / purchase, cleaning, accounting, insurance, health and safety, training, security, advertising, etc). When you add it all together, it's definitely not running at break-even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Just now, llap said: The fact that they operate at "break-even" and therefore charge a lower price for their food isn't the full picture, though, is it? They're not really operating at break-even, as that doesn't factor in numerous other costs which a private business would have to pay (e.g. staff wages, property rental / purchase, cleaning, accounting, insurance, health and safety, training, security, advertising, etc). When you add it all together, it's definitely not running at break-even. Does it matter ? Lots of private firms have subsidised canteens. It's all part of the package. I don't see the problem at all TBH. My problem with them is that most of them don't deserve to be there in the first place. Pigs at the trough is a good description for more than a few of them and they'll be even fatter in 4 years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatshaft Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, llap said: The fact that they operate at "break-even" and therefore charge a lower price for their food isn't the full picture, though, is it? They're not really operating at break-even, as that doesn't factor in numerous other costs which a private business would have to pay (e.g. staff wages, property rental / purchase, cleaning, accounting, insurance, health and safety, training, security, advertising, etc). When you add it all together, it's definitely not running at break-even. I don't know, do you? I assume breakeven means exactly that. If they mean break even on wages and costs then yes you'd be right. But is that the case, I suspect you don't know that any more than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, dilligaf said: Does it matter ? Lots of private firms have subsidised canteens. It's all part of the package. I don't see the problem at all TBH. My problem with them is that most of them don't deserve to be there in the first place. Pigs at the trough is a good description for more than a few of them and they'll be even fatter in 4 years time. Yes, it matters. Someone claimed it wasn't subsidised and it IS subsidised. As for the break-even claim, it isn't even that. It costs significantly more than it brings in. The only thing that's break-even is the individual meal. The whole organisation around it is not break-even at all but is at cost to the taxpayer. As for private firms, they put up all their own costs so it isn't of any concern to the taxpayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 1 minute ago, llap said: Yes, it matters. Someone claimed it wasn't subsidised and it IS subsidised. As for the break-even claim, it isn't even that. It costs significantly more than it brings in. The only thing that's break-even is the individual meal. The whole organisation around it is not break-even at all but is at cost to the taxpayer. As for private firms, they put up all their own costs so it isn't of any concern to the taxpayer. But it still part of the job description/ entitlement/contract, to have cheapish food from the canteen. I personally think it should be stopped and the same with the hospital canteen. Either run the lot at break even, or even a small profit, or stop doing it altogether. ( even if that is just on health grounds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, dilligaf said: Lots of private firms have subsidised canteens. On the IOM? Lots? Could you name a few? When I worked in London we used to have a staff canteen. But that got shut in the late 80s - most other companies closed their staff canteens about the same time. After that we used to eat at the black cab federation canteens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Maybe open these cheap canteens to the public? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, dilligaf said: But it still part of the job description/ entitlement/contract, to have cheapish food from the canteen. No, it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Just a tip Stu, why not interview some of the MHK’s and get it straight from the horse’s mouth instead of the horse’s arse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Just now, Neil Down said: Just a tip Stu, why not interview some of the MHK’s and get it straight from the horse’s mouth instead of the horse’s arse Did he ask you directly did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, llap said: No, it isn't. I used to think that I was the most argumentative twat alive, but you have robbed me of that title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 52 minutes ago, dilligaf said: I used to think that I was the most argumentative twat alive, but you have robbed me of that title. Well, it seriously isn't written anywhere in any government "job description/ entitlement/contract, to have cheapish food from the canteen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Just now, llap said: Well, it seriously isn't written anywhere in any government "job description/ entitlement/contract, to have cheapish food from the canteen." FFS. I didn't mean literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Just now, dilligaf said: FFS. I didn't mean literally. Then how did you mean it? Metaphorically? Yeh, that makes sense. Not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 1 minute ago, llap said: Then how did you mean it? Metaphorically? Yeh, that makes sense. Not. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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