TheTeapot Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Personally I'm less at ease when there is a visible armed presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, TheTeapot said: Personally I'm less at ease when there is a visible armed presence. Interesting perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manx-person Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 32 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: Well if it is routine, then a lot has changed in the 14 months since I stopped running the unit. IMHO it’s something that the public should get more used to though. The attendance of armed officers at notable sporting events is getting more commonplace for example. At some stage, the TT will hit the threshold for an operational deployment on an overt basis. We live in interesting times. Personally I’m always a lot more at ease when there is a visible armed presence. Always thought the Trafford Centre was a place that could benefit from it. A bit like an airport; full of people and a bugger to get there in a hurry. Nice to see I got a mention! For me if its about context. 1. If I go to an airport any I see armed police, I realise they have a protection role. I need to be there and I am glad they are there to act as a deterrent and also deal with any (hopefully rare) issue. 2. If I am walking down Athol Street and I see officers in a car with rifles (only by virtue of me looking closely at them in their marked car) then I am concerned as to why they are there. If they had been on the street with their guns I would have realised that there was a risk, and kept away from the area. Them sat in their cars doesn't make it safer for me, it makes it more dangerous as I am unable to avoid the area Its the means of their deployment on Athol Street that concerns me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, manx-person said: For me if its about context. 1. If I go to an airport any I see armed police, I realise they have a protection role. I need to be there and I am glad they are there to act as a deterrent and also deal with any (hopefully rare) issue. 2. If I am walking down Athol Street and I see officers in a car with rifles (only by virtue of me looking closely at them in their marked car) then I am concerned as to why they are there. If they had been on the street with their guns I would have realised that there was a risk, and kept away from the area. Them sat in their cars doesn't make it safer for me, it makes it more dangerous as I am unable to avoid the area Its the means of their deployment on Athol Street that concerns me. If you pootle around London, you’ll see armed police in the railway stations, outside embassies, palaces, and even Tony Blair’s house. Look more closely, and you’ll notice armed police on motorbikes, in marked cars, and also the odd unmarked van, all ostensibly doing nothing. Whatever my former colleagues were up to in Athol St, their deployment on that occasion was for them to remain in the car until or if, ‘x’ happened. Not sure why that would be a concern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 51 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: Well if it is routine, then a lot has changed in the 14 months since I stopped running the unit. IMHO it’s something that the public should get more used to though. The attendance of armed officers at notable sporting events is getting more commonplace for example. At some stage, the TT will hit the threshold for an operational deployment on an overt basis. And the crimes during TT that need armed police are what exactly? 3 hours ago, LightBulb said: A bit off topic, but the last murder on the island was about 5 years ago, and when you think about, we are in a very safe place ( compared to other places ). Looks like an an attempt at a stat to justify more pay for our thick/thin blue line. How many murders in other areas with similar population such as Pendle, Tewkesbury, East Dorset, Surrey Heath, Runnymede or Redditch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 22 minutes ago, gettafa said: And the crimes during TT that need armed police are what exactly? Looks like an an attempt at a stat to justify more pay for our thick/thin blue line. How many murders in other areas with similar population such as Pendle, Tewkesbury, East Dorset, Surrey Heath, Runnymede or Redditch? What crimes happen at Silverstone? The Grand National, Or Premier League matches? Or at airports or train stations? None. But they are all Places of mass gathering, and in the context of sporting events especially, a high profile target. A bit like theTT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: What crimes happen at Silverstone? The Grand National, Or Premier League matches? Or at airports or train stations? Pickpocketing mostly, public drunkeness and occasional affray. Fucking shoot the lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Dont think terrorists would have to do anything at the TT to cause death and destruction!!! Derek, you're being a bit obtuse re Athol st., suppose the police had a report of an armed person in the area, he appears, they jump out of their car, waving guns, shouting and bawling.............. it would frighten the crap out of any innocent by-stander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manx-person Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Derek Flint said: If you pootle around London, you’ll see armed police in the railway stations, outside embassies, palaces, and even Tony Blair’s house. Look more closely, and you’ll notice armed police on motorbikes, in marked cars, and also the odd unmarked van, all ostensibly doing nothing. Whatever my former colleagues were up to in Athol St, their deployment on that occasion was for them to remain in the car until or if, ‘x’ happened. Not sure why that would be a concern? They were there for over 5 consecutive days, presumably because of some risk 'x'. I only became aware on day 4. If x happened then I would have rather not been there. If they had been overt then I would kept away from the area, which would have been safer for everyone. According to the chief constable's report https://www.iompolice.im/media/1121/annual-report-2016-17.pdf page 77there were only 3 incidents to which firearms were deployed in 2016-17 so this is still a rare event, which makes it in my view significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Derek Flint said: What crimes happen at Silverstone? The Grand National, Or Premier League matches? Or at airports or train stations? None. But they are all Places of mass gathering, and in the context of sporting events especially, a high profile target. A bit like theTT. Relatively to those events, there is a substantial layer of security for the TT in that everyone has to go through a port first. The TT has a unique nature, as far as security goes I hardly feel we should be following the mainland big events just because. But yeah ok, give the boys some toys. eta: Plus also the cost of getting to IoM and the esoteric nature of the event naturally bars many of the undesirables seeing it as a mass gathering to carry out their little ways. I remember the days when the bike thieves turned 'bona fide' stunt riders/bike wreckers were doing displays at the TT. Their supporters came with them and stood out like sore thumbs in the TT crowds. They made our local scallies look like wee cherubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Derek Flint said: If you pootle around London, you’ll see armed police in the railway stations, outside embassies, palaces, and even Tony Blair’s house. Look more closely, and you’ll notice armed police on motorbikes, in marked cars, and also the odd unmarked van, all ostensibly doing nothing. Whatever my former colleagues were up to in Athol St, their deployment on that occasion was for them to remain in the car until or if, ‘x’ happened. Not sure why that would be a concern? Well firstly London has world-wide fame so anything that happens there has a world-wide audience. Plus it has every embassy and consulate you could ever think of. The world's most well known royal family. One of the worlds busiest airports. The worlds busiest financial centre etc etc etc. So comparing Douglas to London is a tad disingenuous to my way of thinking. Secondly it's a concern to have armed police lurking in their noddy cars with rifles because they wouldn't have them unless it was thought they needed them. Not that Athol St is likely to turn into the OK Corral anytime soon but the fact is they wouldn't be there unless it was thought the threat of lethal force was needed. So Joe Public rightly thinks "Against what exactly?" and there, in a nutshell, is the concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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