The Economic Benefits of Cruise Ships.

[Uhtred]

43 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

No one is knocking what he does.  They're just pointing out the pathetic way that the Manx Government keeps on using it for publicity purposes as a way of demonstrating that they are actually doing something about green issues (think of those embarrassing scenes at the Brighton Party Conference) when in actual fact:

(i) it's not the Government doing it

(ii) it's not the original idea they are claiming 

(iii) it's only a tiny dent in the Island's environmental problems and they're doing nothing about the others or actively making them worse

(iv) no one is really impressed except the journalists they pay to come over

Of course none of this actually matters to them and their idea of dealing with environmental problems goes no further than arranging a photo opportunity.

But this superficial pseudo-action charade is the very essence of the Quayle administration in response to anything whatsoever isn’t it?

[kevster]

3 hours ago, dilligaf said:

Bulk cargo includes containers, we are then back to the good old days. I know a bit about the freight side of life, so please don’t preach, papa

This is the normal definition I think...

 

[dilligaf]

11 hours ago, kevster said:

This is the normal definition I think...

 

I am sure Bambi likened bulk cargo to Mezeron’s operation. That is all sorts of stuff including containers

Apart from rock salt, I don’t think we have any other bulk stuff these days. At least I can’t think of any.

[Derek Flint]

16 hours ago, joeyconcrete said:

I'd say tentative at best. A similar scheme in the Herbrides seems heavily subsidised using Scottish/EU money, despite the secondary economic benefits and the supporting data looking more plausible.

Much like planning; I would be more enthusiastic if the forecasts and economic indicators pointed to an era of population growth and broadened economic activity. Build and they will come is a strategy that often doesn't materialise. Right now, I'd be happy with a couple of working flumes. 

You wrote it for me.

if we were spaffing EU money on this (and they would doubtless have helped had we been a member) then I’d be cool with the ‘build it and they will come’ philosophy. But the reality  can be seen in the likes of Ciudad Real Airport in Spain. Over-optimism, lack of supporting infrastructure and flawed purpose.

I say it often, but we really do need to cut our cloth better. This cannot continue.

[finlo]

6 hours ago, dilligaf said:

I am sure Bambi likened bulk cargo to Mezeron’s operation. That is all sorts of stuff including containers

Apart from rock salt, I don’t think we have any other bulk stuff these days. At least I can’t think of any.

Cement, grain, coal, scrap metal to name a few.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

On 3/2/2020 at 12:46 PM, b4mbi said:

Economic benefits of having a deep water berth which can berth:

- larger passenger ferries in emergency/at peak times
- project cargo vessels (for windfarm/gas field parts)
- bulk cargo vessels larger than Silver River
-  offshore supply ships
- vessels needing temporary layby berth for essential maintenance/crew operational reasons (UK working hours?)

??

 

 

It's always concerning when you post on this subject. Largely because you come across as someone who knows what they are talking about which doesn't go down well here generally.

You raise some interesting points.  I'd like to see an investment for the future and your ideas are interesting .

 

[dilligaf]

1 hour ago, finlo said:

Cement, grain, coal, scrap metal to name a few.

Not sure about cement as it was coming in tankers at one time. Does anyone ship scrap out in anything other than tippers since Manx Metals packed up ? Same with grain,. Does that still come in or out in bulk ? 
Who gets coal in bulk ?
 

Not been involved for a long time now

[Non-Believer]

Cement comes into Ramsey in one of Mezeron's bulk carriers and is hoovered/sucked out into the quayside storage silos.

Scrap metal goes out in compressed cubes on semi trailers as far as I know, though I did see it being loaded in loose bulk from Ramsey quayside by the old Talk of the Town site once.

[dilligaf]

10 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Cement comes into Ramsey in one of Mezeron's bulk carriers and is hoovered/sucked out into the quayside storage silos.

Scrap metal goes out in compressed cubes on semi trailers as far as I know, though I did see it being loaded in loose bulk from Ramsey quayside by the old Talk of the Town site once.

So no benefit bringing in bulk ships to Douglas like Bambi was saying.

Actually, just thinking back, wasn’t the cement brought in by the Ben boats belonging to Ramsey Steam Ship.? Or am I going too far back ?

[doc.fixit]

Still bulk scrap once a year from Ramsey. Also cement and grain and building materials. Don't forget all the liquids to Douglas and Peel.

[dilligaf]

14 minutes ago, doc.fixit said:

Still bulk scrap once a year from Ramsey. Also cement and grain and building materials. Don't forget all the liquids to Douglas and Peel.

Yes, so no benefit to Douglas for £££££££££££££££££££££££ being spent / wasted on a deep water berth.

[Non-Believer]

Cement operations might benefit if they moved the silos to Douglas. At present, most of it gets transported via road tanker to the middle and south of the Island to the outlets. Building materials coming ashore at Ramsey generally go to northern outlets Corry's (Jewsons), or Haldane Fisher (Northern Builders) or often straight to site. There must also be building stuff coming in via Douglas for the southern outlets?

If the economics stacked up they'd move, although it wouldn't do Ramsey and Mezeron any favours. Particularly with Ballasalla going ahead and the Marown fields in the offing, it makes no sense to be bringing stuff into Ramsey from a logistics point of view.

If they're going to plough money into Douglas though, it makes more sense to do it on a general facilities purpose rather than this pipedream cruise liner berth only proposal.

[dilligaf]

19 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Cement operations might benefit if they moved the silos to Douglas. At present, most of it gets transported via road tanker to the middle and south of the Island to the outlets. Building materials coming ashore at Ramsey generally go to northern outlets Corry's (Jewsons), or Haldane Fisher (Northern Builders) or often straight to site. There must also be building stuff coming in via Douglas for the southern outlets?

If the economics stacked up they'd move, although it wouldn't do Ramsey and Mezeron any favours. Particularly with Ballasalla going ahead and the Marown fields in the offing, it makes no sense to be bringing stuff into Ramsey from a logistics point of view.

If they're going to plough money into Douglas though, it makes more sense to do it on a general facilities purpose rather than this pipedream cruise liner berth only proposal.

There is nothing wrong with what we have now.

Ro Ro freight is king and comes into Douglas. Anything else non urgent is shipped by Mezeron into Ramsey.

Both are happy with their lot, so no need whatsoever to try changing that.

 The deep water berth is 100% pie in the sky. Bambi knows it as he was involved in an attempt to change things and failed miserably.

If it isn’t broken.,don’t try to fix it  Too many imported people trying to change the imported freight. In my humble opinion.

[Kopek]

I did wonder what 'Bulk Cargo' is! From the link, there doesn't seem to be anything that might become a future industry for our benefit?

I hope that Bambi isn't a Govt consultant or we might have a Dept. 'Empire Building' or being mis-directed in a hopeless direction.

Of course, this doesn't mean that a deep water berth is not viable but we are cynical about the value of the cruise industry and now the freight requirements!

It's doubtful the Island could develop a future industry that would require a mass shipment, even an industry for Pet Food, which may require 5-10 containers a week could be accommodated with overnight shipments???

Make MHKs responsible for losses if their stupidity is contrary to common sense!!!

[dilligaf]

Well said Kopek