IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Gladys]

7 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

The taxi driver that reported the lady fleeing to a refuge. Did they as a result have to self isolate for 14 days? And why is it called self isolation anyway? Self implies choice

No, self implies that you do it yourself rather than being supervised, no choice in it. 

[the stinking enigma]

So why not just call it isolating? Seems a petty point but it's been minutely troubling me for 6 months now

[John Wright]

36 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

I agree it’s probably the latter. But as I said it’s probably largely down to the fact that the only people policing this seem to be the public in most cases. I’m glad you agree that it’s distasteful too. But it seems to have been the deliberate tactic by government - again presumably in order to police this all on the cheap. Just create a culture of fear and empower a few nosey nut jobs who know they can dob people in it and put them in jail and it will police itself. Only it hasn’t. If everything is even half as serious as we are being told then absolutely hundreds of people should have been drafted in to get their arms round all of this but it never happened and all of a sudden fixing the MER and the prom jumped back to the top of governments agenda with some token jailings thrown in on top just to under line the culture of fear. But prison sentences per see have not made any of our front line covid defenses any more robust really have they? More 111 people and more testing probably would have though! 

There you go again. 

I don’t think they deliberately set out to create a state of fear or a Stasi reporting network. They were justifying extraordinary measures in extraordinary times with a new virus. 

Apart from lowering the curve, protecting the NHS, it has, since June, allowed virtually everything to operate as normal.

You criticise the border policy. I agree we are in a cul de sac and no exit strategy, but that’s no reason not to continue the prom, the MER, the Liverpool terminal, and dozens of other infrastructure jobs*. They don’t just employ key workers, but lots of locals, long term, who spend, and whilst employed don’t require to be furloughed or on income replacement and other benefits.

Its better to carry on with these projects, so things are progressed, some even completed, by the time borders are re opened.

* doesn’t imply I agree with what they’ve chosen to spend some of that money on. Horse trams on reconstructed prom and Liverpool  terminal are pure vanity waste in my eyes. 

[thesultanofsheight]

2 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I don’t think they deliberately set out to create a state of fear or a Stasi reporting network. They were justifying extraordinary measures in extraordinary times with a new virus. 

That’s where we disagree they knew exactly what they were doing. And they’ve got the end results they wanted in some of the outrageously insular behaviours that are still being exhibited. I criticize the way the border policy has been implemented with some holes in it and some awful extra-draconian measures (like not allowing family and friends to visit like other islands have). Not the actual need for border restrictions. Surely it’s better to throw resource at getting this allegedly life and death situation right rather than tat around with some infrastructure projects that can wait (MER lines etc). Especially when those projects have actually brought in key workers some of whom have been the worst offenders? 

[Roger Mexico]

16 minutes ago, Gladys said:

And that is another point, if the fact she was arsey led to a charge and conviction, was that an aggravating factor?  Neither the aggravating factor nor any mitigating factor should have changed the risk and so the outcome, surely? She wasn't charged with resisting arrest or assaulting a police officer was she? 

Actually she was:

Magistrates jailed her for four weeks.

She was also sentenced to one week, to run concurrently, after admitting resisting arrest.

No pleas were entered to two charges of driving offences, and her next appearance at Douglas Courthouse will be on 15 October.

And of course the sort of behaviour that someone would have to display to get convicted of resisting arrest will also be the sort that would increase the risk of spreading Covid.

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

That’s where we disagree they knew exactly what they were doing. And they’ve got the end results they wanted in some of the outrageously insular behaviours that are still being exhibited. I criticize the way the border policy has been implemented with some holes in it and some awful extra-draconian measures (like not allowing family and friends to visit like other islands have). Not the actual need for border restrictions. Surely it’s better to throw resource at getting this allegedly life and death situation right rather than tat around with some infrastructure projects that can wait (MER lines etc). Especially when those projects have actually brought in key workers some of whom have been the worst offenders? 

The cost of having, and implementing, and effectively policing a sane and sensible border policy is peanuts, and no reason to stop ongoing infrastructure projects.

Nor is an infraction by very few people reason to tighten the policy or tar all key workers with that brush.

[Mr Helmut Fromage]

45 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

That’s where we disagree they knew exactly what they were doing. And they’ve got the end results they wanted in some of the outrageously insular behaviours that are still being exhibited. 

Bewildering statement - it implies our scattergun reactionary Government made up of average intelligence plodders have had a master plan all along and executed this flawlessly over 9 months to achieve their desired & satisfactory outcome via their actions - and nobody outside the corridors of power has any knowledge or clue ?

Do you honestly think Rob Callister or Skelly or INSERT NAME HERE could contain their vanity if they thought they were part of Islands Illuminati....

[thesultanofsheight]

50 minutes ago, Mr Helmut Fromage said:

Bewildering statement - Do you honestly think Rob Callister or Skelly or INSERT NAME HERE could contain their vanity if they thought they were part of Islands Illuminati....

It’s not them running the show or making or implementing any of these totalitarian policies though is it? The civil service has been run on fear and psychological bullying for decades. 

[boswellian]

On 4/22/2020 at 11:23 AM, yootalkin2me said:

It sounds like your friend in Ramsey is pretty fragile and could easily die of the flu or common cold, do we keep lockdown going indefinitely for him/hard and others like them? It's not about money, it's about treating people in hospital who are gravely sick and will die as a result of reduced services for the lockdown, the massive increase in mental ill health, the massive increase of domestic abuse and violence etc etc...but as long as your friend who is most probably at death's door anyway is kept alive then that's ok.

As someone who would be considered to be in the ‘vulnerable’ group, I completely agree with what you say. Lord Sumption has also mentioned this on various occasions. For those who wish to isolate and keep distant etc., they should be assisted in doing so, if it helps them. Personally, I am still looking for anything which doesn’t resemble scaremongering, which informs us of how we can strengthen our immune systems and permits life quality. Who wants to become a centenarian if it means spending thirty years in quarantine?

[Nom de plume]

1 hour ago, boswellian said:

As someone who would be considered to be in the ‘vulnerable’ group, I completely agree with what you say. Lord Sumption has also mentioned this on various occasions. For those who wish to isolate and keep distant etc., they should be assisted in doing so, if it helps them. Personally, I am still looking for anything which doesn’t resemble scaremongering, which informs us of how we can strengthen our immune systems and permits life quality. Who wants to become a centenarian if it means spending thirty years in quarantine?

Are you my Dad?

Please email Howard Quayle.

Edited November 8, 2020 by Nom de plume

[Gladys]

59 minutes ago, boswellian said:

As someone who would be considered to be in the ‘vulnerable’ group, I completely agree with what you say. Lord Sumption has also mentioned this on various occasions. For those who wish to isolate and keep distant etc., they should be assisted in doing so, if it helps them. Personally, I am still looking for anything which doesn’t resemble scaremongering, which informs us of how we can strengthen our immune systems and permits life quality. Who wants to become a centenarian if it means spending thirty years in quarantine?

This is a sane and rational post, thank you. 

[NoTail]

1 hour ago, boswellian said:

Who wants to become a centenarian if it means spending thirty years in quarantine?

My mother

[Scotty]

4 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Same approach to drugs, deterrent sentencing. It's an awful thing to do really, add an extra couple of years onto some 19 year old ecstasy users sentence as a warning to others. That's basically what they're doing in these cases, using people to send a message. 

Surely it is just saying “ if you can’t be trusted to self isolate, we will isolate you in Jurby”

 

[BenFairfax]

4 hours ago, thesultanofsheight said:

I agree it’s probably the latter. But as I said it’s probably largely down to the fact that the only people policing this seem to be the public in most cases.

Would add that majority people who got caught (from what I read in press) were easy to detect. With this aside the policy is really about protecting wider society. People can accept benfits and risks of traveling now, but just not equitable to take all benefits themselves of traveling, and think they can socialise the risks.

Just to protect the postman or electric reader,... I would also ask people in quaranteen to post note onto the front door. Why should postman doing his rounds not be warned if various houses are meant to quaranteen.   

[thesultanofsheight]

11 minutes ago, BenFairfax said:

Just to protect the postman or electric reader,... I would also ask people in quaranteen to post note onto the front door. Why should postman doing his rounds not be warned if various houses are meant to quaranteen.   

I suppose that’s fair. But again back to my point on resourcing compliance rather than relying on public snitchers. Wouldn’t you have thought at some stage someone on the covid team would have realized that we already employ people to knock on the doors of about 80% of the Islands population regularly. Wouldn’t it make sense to give them a list of s/i homes anyway and when out on their rounds ask them to just have a look when they’re delivering letters to see if all seems to be in order? But no we separately pay people largely to chase up on people by phone! Little of it seems to be joined up. 

Edited November 8, 2020 by thesultanofsheight