IOM Covid removing restrictions

[Banker]

16 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

The funny thing is that people actually think thst Quayle et al are making the decisions...they're not, it's Will Greenhow amd his team of CEOs, Quayle et al are merely the mouthpieces.

Sounds like Jersey having similar problems with civil servants writing policy 

https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2020/11/21/senior-civil-servants-are-gaining-too-much-power/

[Apple]

23 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

The funny thing is that people actually think thst Quayle et al are making the decisions...they're not, it's Will Greenhow amd his team of CEOs, Quayle et al are merely the mouthpieces.

I disagree. They are listening to the scientific / medical / clinical advice but interpreting it their own way to suit political agenda and ideology. 

That is what they are there for. 

[yootalkin2me]

1 minute ago, Apple said:

I disagree. They are listening to the scientific / medical / clinical advice but interpreting it their own way to suit political agenda and ideology. 

That is what they are there for. 

Welll, you're certainly entitled to your opnion. I maintain that we, the Isle of Man, are doing the right thing..on the surface but there are so many loopholes with regard to key workers from the UK and beyond being exploited as well as the machiavellian manner in which the testing, results and infections are being portrayed, for example; this whole 'no cases in the community' bollocks. At present we, as an island have been lucky (if you assume that all infected people are coming forward and reporting it...which I very much doubt), once all returning people get to the Island ahead of Christmas there will be more and more infections in the community.

[boswellian]

5 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

Welll, you're certainly entitled to your opnion. I maintain that we, the Isle of Man, are doing the right thing..on the surface but there are so many loopholes with regard to key workers from the UK and beyond being exploited as well as the machiavellian manner in which the testing, results and infections are being portrayed, for example; this whole 'no cases in the community' bollocks. At present we, as an island have been lucky (if you assume that all infected people are coming forward and reporting it...which I very much doubt), once all returning people get to the Island ahead of Christmas there will be more and more infections in the community.

Infections or positive test results?

 

 

[Apple]

1 minute ago, yootalkin2me said:

Welll, you're certainly entitled to your opnion.

We all are.

 

2 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

I maintain that we, the Isle of Man, are doing the right thing.

So do I

 

2 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

once all returning people get to the Island ahead of Christmas there will be more and more infections in the community.

Again I agree. So effectively we are following what could be terms as the best way to try and deal with what we have here. What concerns me though is what the future will bring, in that some travel restrictions and conditions will remain. Not just here but globally. Passports, health certificates, shared health care records, vaccine certificates, mandatory health insurance will, again in my opinion, be brought in. 

Covid has accelerated some of these ideological based restrictions to "manage people" and deter unwanted visitors, shall we say. I am not not saying it's right though.

[yootalkin2me]

16 minutes ago, Apple said:

We all are.

 

So do I

 

Again I agree. So effectively we are following what could be terms as the best way to try and deal with what we have here. What concerns me though is what the future will bring, in that some travel restrictions and conditions will remain. Not just here but globally. Passports, health certificates, shared health care records, vaccine certificates, mandatory health insurance will, again in my opinion, be brought in. 

Covid has accelerated some of these ideological based restrictions to "manage people" and deter unwanted visitors, shall we say. I am not not saying it's right though.

100% agree with you on all points...I think Orwell's 1984 is probably about 50 years out lol

[PaulJ]

8 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

100% agree with you on all points...I think Orwell's 1984 is probably about 50 years out lol

Was he nearer with Animal farm?

[Albert Tatlock]

Lots of strange new faces appearing on island now. Only a matter of time IMO. Too many leaks to avoid a lockdown.

I was talking to a German, a Scotsman and an Englishman new over today. No joke there though.

Tick fuckin tock.

 

ETA: Plus an Irishman now. All out at the pub.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Albert Tatlock

[Lxxx]

9 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Lots of strange new faces appearing on island now. Only a matter of time IMO. Too many leaks to avoid a lockdown.

I was talking to a German, a Scotsman and an Englishman new over today. No joke there though.

Tick fuckin tock.

 

ETA: Plus an Irishman now. All out at the pub.

I don't get your point. If society is functioning okay, the local economy is ticking over and Nobles isn't over-run what's the problem? 

It's like some people are rubbing their hands together in anticipation of an outbreak so say 'I told you so.'

I personally think some people are too obsessed with testing, testing, testing and think the more we know the better it is. On the contrary, in my opinion we continue to be sensible and we take as we find. 

[Banker]

40 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Lots of strange new faces appearing on island now. Only a matter of time IMO. Too many leaks to avoid a lockdown.

I was talking to a German, a Scotsman and an Englishman new over today. No joke there though.

Tick fuckin tock.

 

ETA: Plus an Irishman now. All out at the pub.

Well if new to island they would have done 14 days isolation so no problems unless of course key workers!!

[yootalkin2me]

It's the compliance I'm.concerned about, the ones caught out and jailed thus far have presented themselves on a plate to the authorities. We, as an island do not have the intelligence or resources or system for that matter to ensure every single person is being compliant when they should be. I genuinely hope tbere are no infections out there that woukd cause even the slightest backwards step, I really do, I quite like the way things are albeit although I'm desperate to going on holiday.

[Roger Mexico]

16 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

It's the compliance I'm.concerned about, the ones caught out and jailed thus far have presented themselves on a plate to the authorities. We, as an island do not have the intelligence or resources or system for that matter to ensure every single person is being compliant 

It's worth saying that they have made things more difficult for themselves by introducing the exercise hour for those isolating.  At first it looks reasonable - according to Quayle's statement[1]:

One final point worth mentioning, is on the topic of exercise for households isolating because of a traveller, but which are free of the virus. So long as no one is displaying symptoms of COVID-19 and has not tested positive for the virus, the traveller and other members of the household can exercise outdoors for up to one hour each day, but you must wear a face covering, you must physically distance yourself from other people and you must exercise alone or only with members of your own household.

But of course it now means that any isolatee found out and about can just point to their mask and claim they're on their statutory hour.  Unless you expect the police to monitor all returnees and anyone in their household 24/7, there's no way in which isolation can now be enforced.  Of course most people will behave responsibly, but it can't be proved someone is breaking the rules.

I suspect what has happened here is the usual.  Someone recently described Boris Johnson as a cushion which always bore the marks of whoever had sat on him last, and his Mini-Me is the same.  Some mate no doubt complained about not being able to get out for a bit a fresh air when isolating, and they ended up making the system unenforceable because they didn't think things through.

 

[1]  Though why (as we all have been regularly pointing out for nine months) it should be Quayle to make these announcements is a mystery.  Especially now they have discovered they have a Director of Public Health who has to sit there hoping to get a word in after the Dynamic Duo have finally finished speaking.

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, yootalkin2me said:

[...]once all returning people get to the Island ahead of Christmas there will be more and more infections in the community.

2 hours ago, boswellian said:

Infections or positive test results?

Obviously if no one is tested then there won't be any positive test results, but there could still be infections - hopefully only among those isolating.  But every positive test result is an infection - as Rachel explained in her excellent presentation 'false positives' are very rare indeed in the type of testing we use on the Island.

What may lie behind this question is the belief that a positive test somehow doesn't mean that it is a 'proper' case of Covid-19 if there are no symptoms.  This simply isn't true - the definition of the disease is a lab test showing the presence of the organism that causes it.  What is more this is true of every infectious disease, not just Covid-19.  It has to be this way, because no disease has a unique set of symptoms which every infected person has and which no person suffering from any other disease does.  It's the way medicine works.

And in this infection there's also the fact that we know those not showing any symptoms can infect others - even if they never go on to show any later.  The number of completely asymptomatic people may be lower than has been thought - latest estimates are about 20% - but they can still give it to others.

[Albert Tatlock]

They do need to seriously police these 'returnees'. Especially those arriving weeks commencing Mon 6th and 13th in the build up to xmas.

Two infected people out and about in those weeks could cause carnage and a lockdown in January...ironically when the vaccine starts rolling out.

I can see that lockdown needing to happen all down to complacency.

There's a £multi-million economy at at stake here Jan to March.

[Escape Artist]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

It's worth saying that they have made things more difficult for themselves by introducing the exercise hour for those isolating.  At first it looks reasonable - according to Quayle's statement[1]:

One final point worth mentioning, is on the topic of exercise for households isolating because of a traveller, but which are free of the virus. So long as no one is displaying symptoms of COVID-19 and has not tested positive for the virus, the traveller and other members of the household can exercise outdoors for up to one hour each day, but you must wear a face covering, you must physically distance yourself from other people and you must exercise alone or only with members of your own household.

But of course it now means that any isolatee found out and about can just point to their mask and claim they're on their statutory hour.  Unless you expect the police to monitor all returnees and anyone in their household 24/7, there's no way in which isolation can now be enforced.  Of course most people will behave responsibly, but it can't be proved someone is breaking the rules.

I suspect what has happened here is the usual.  Someone recently described Boris Johnson as a cushion which always bore the marks of whoever had sat on him last, and his Mini-Me is the same.  Some mate no doubt complained about not being able to get out for a bit a fresh air when isolating, and they ended up making the system unenforceable because they didn't think things through.

Roger Mexico: I presume you are a filthy ball of fat; as most of those who want the restrictions are. If you were not the filthy ball of fat you are, you would understand and feel actually what kind of torture can be to be deprived of physical exercise.

It does not make a practical difference to me. When I was back in the island, during those 14 days, I went running on my own in the depth of the night with no problem or risk of being prosecuted. I belong to the social-economic strata that are exempt from prosecution under Covid.