Slim Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 if you wanbt to know slim research it yourself as i have .. i will decide what and when i post thanks. Why would you need to research basic schoolboy physics manxman2? Do you know what this is? Do you know why a comet only has a tail when it gets near the sun? Do you know you're talking out of your hoop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) i know fullwell slim .. your determined to split hairs on anything. see slim no liquid water in space .. all water molecules are either ice or vapour. Design Reference Mission Case Study Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy Science Steering Committee. SOFIA and the Formation of Water in the Cold Interstellar Medium Fig. 1 shows a schematic of the oxygen chemistry that is believed to power water formation in interstellar space. Chemical models (see Elitzur & de Jong 1978, Neufeld et al. 1995) show that for T >300 K, water vapor will account for most of the gas-phase oxygen that is not bound as CO, as a result of the neutral-neutral reactions: H2 + O ! OH + H and H2 + OH ! H2O + H. At temperatures less than 300 K, however, these reactions are negligibly slow because they possess significant activation energy barriers. Gas-phase water is then produced either by means of reactions of atomic oxygen with hydrogen on grain surfaces with subsequent sublimation or via cosmic-ray driven ion-neutral chemistry, as shown in Fig. 1. Water formed on grains will remain frozen on the grain until either the grain temperature exceeds 110 K or the water molecule is photodesorbed by a UV photon. SWAS and Odin observations have determined that the water vapor abundance in cold gas is several orders of magnitude below theoretical expectations (see, e.g. Bergin et al. 2001). The primary solution provided as an answer to this question is that the formation of water ice on grains results in a depletion of atomic oxygen from the gas. In this model the fuel for the chemistry, oxygen atoms, is frozen onto grains in the form of water ice. This ice will not evaporate unless temperatures exceed 110 K (Fraser et al. 2001) and hence most oxygen is essentially unavailable to make water vapor or molecular oxygen in the gas. Thus the low abundance of water vapor hints at a lack of gaseous atomic oxygen in the densest regions of molecular cloud cores. Even a little amount of oxygen in the gas would create water vapor that could be detected by SWAS and ODIN. Herschel has a key program that focuses exclusively on water, Water in Star-Forming Regions with Herschel (WISH; PI: E. van Dishoeck). This program will survey the spectrum of activity in both low and high mass star forming regions. With access to multiple transi- tions of both ortho and para forms of water, and higher angular resolution than SWAS/Odin, Herschel will determine accurate water vapor abundances and thereby challenge these theo- ries. full evaluation here. http://www.sofia.usra.edu/Science/science_.../Bergin2008.pdf comets. "The surface is about 5 percent ice, and the rest is just dark dirt. So it's like a very dirty skating rink." source. national geographic. why not try sourcing your data slim. Edited June 25, 2009 by manxman2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 see slim no liquid water in space .. all water molecules are either ice or vapour. I didn't say there was liquid in space. I'm questioning your statement regarding super freezing: "ice doesnt melt in space .. it either super heats or super freezes .. which is for all intents and purposes the same thing." "The surface is about 5 percent ice, and the rest is just dark dirt. So it's like a very dirty skating rink." source. national geographic. why not try sourcing your data slim. Why not try understanding the question manxman2, why doesn't the ice on the comet sublimate, if freezing and heating have the same effect? Why is it that the ice stays ice when it's further from the suns radiation but when it nears the sun, the ice turns into vapor forming the tail? Heating and cooling: not the same thing. The opposite in fact, a fairly basic principle of physics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 It's just struck that despite using the word more than a dozen times in this thread, Manxman2 doesn't actually know what sublimation is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) must be true ans especially when you highlight a word in bold. slim what part of i will post what i like when i like did you not understand ..?? lmao as slim realises the fundermental basis of his shuttle footage arguement is disintergrating in front of him lol. hard for non existant ice crystals to go out of focus isnt it slim. debunkers have been falsely peddling that shit for years .. like i have said first we will eliminate what the footage doesnt show .. then speculate as to what it does depict. i dont know who you think you are slim demanding answers .. ive told you do your research or i will fuuk you in the arse. The opposite in fact, a fairly basic principle of physics. i am going to use that line to whip you with whipping boy .. your a joke. your just repeating questions already answered on previous page .. and i am not supplying the other link to the virtually the same thing quote until i put up the shuttle footage thread then you can read it. .. until then do your own research .. and for the record i dont give a flying fuuk about comets and your efforts to diversify the discussion. and if you think comet ice is chemically identical to shuttle ice then feel free to prove it. i will bet you cannot.. chubby brown wrote a great song for you slim m8 .. it was called the back scuttle. and heres another big numbers throw away line from the same world renowned physicist .. you have more chance of entering and winning every lottery in the would on the same weekend as you have of seeing a singular ice crystal in space. Edited June 25, 2009 by manxman2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) if you wanbt to know slim research it yourself as i have .. i will decide what and when i post thanks. Why would you need to research basic schoolboy physics manxman2? Do you know what this is? Do you know why a comet only has a tail when it gets near the sun? Do you know you're talking out of your hoop? what was this bullshit about if you acknowledge now after having it pointed out too you that there is no liquid water in space.. Why not try understanding the question manxman2, why doesn't the ice on the comet sublimate, if freezing and heating have the same effect? Why is it that the ice stays ice when it's further from the suns radiation but when it nears the sun, the ice turns into vapor forming the tail? Heating and cooling: not the same thing. The opposite in fact, a fairly basic principle of physics! how do you know ice doesnt vapourise/sublimate from a comet in deep space when super freezing anyway ..?? .. link to anything relevent to your unconfirmed/guess/assertion please .. again i will wager you cannot. .. ice does sublimate in deep space .. it just does it much more slowly.. try sticking your fingers onto some dry ice slim .. you will get them burned worse than here. comets are also depleted by sublimation each time they come near the Sun. Ultimately, old comets may break into several pieces or even completely disintegrate. In some cases, the comet may have a solid rocky core that is then left to travel around the comet's orbit as a dark barren asteroid. Edited June 25, 2009 by manxman2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 What does sublimate mean please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) a more pertinant question might be what would cause ice to melt in space at all.in bold hence my reply. super freezing and heating have virtually the same effect slim gasation i.e. sublimation. basic school boy physics slim thought you may have knew that. If it's basic school boy physics, why don't you explain to me how ice sublimates in space due to low temperatures like I asked? If ice sublimates at both high and low temperatures, are you saying there is no ice in space? Why is it more pertinent to ask what would cause ice to melt in space? What are you trying to say? i didnt say it slim loa did so ask him .. but you already knew that just more slim bullshit .. slim..?? you there slimbo ?? like a morgue in here son .. no more smart answers .. not even a piss-take slimbo .. sllllliiiiiiiimmmmmbbbbbbbbo. ans you should have read my last 3 posts before you started asking your schoolboy question/bait. its quite nice to see the neanderthal gene line hasnt truly died out but your ancestors were an exception to the rule obviously.. slimbo im looking forward to your solidly presented .. fully sourced .. scientifically shattering replies. ssssssllllllllllllllllllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmbbbbbbbo Edited June 25, 2009 by manxman2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 and heres another big numbers throw away line from the same world renowned physicist .. you have more chance of entering and winning every lottery in the would on the same weekend as you have of seeing a singular ice crystal in space. Manxman2 - you are scarcely coherent, you rant, you ramble, you fail to make clear points, you can hardly use gramatical language, you are pugnatious and baiting to an extreme. I thought this part of this thread was about the fact that ice can exist as either a solid (a crystal) or a vapour at the pressures normally existing space. The low pressure means that the liquid phase doesn't exist. At certain temperatures the vapour directly deposits a solid crystal which will, at higher temperatures sublimate directly back into a solid. You and Slim have been wasting your respective times going on about this - but your coherence is going down the pan and your ranting is making you come out with ever wilder statments - the one I've quoted above just takes the biscuit, will make ans a very happy man and once again makes you sound very ignorant. Now lets try and get into the situation on the shuttle - liquid water is stored in a tank - it is heated to something like 30 degrees C before it is dumped. It is stored under normal atmospheric pressures and when it is dumped you have a pressure of between 15-20 ib per square inch in the nozzles where it is ejected into space. In this situation you get a very complicated process where this liquid water simulataneously boils (due to the pressure drop) into a vapour; and freezes into ice crystals. This process takes a period of time - you will have water vapour, liquid and ice all existing together in an out of equilibrium environment over the period of the dump which takes minutes. You then end up with an atmosphere of water vapour and ice orbiting along with the shuttle. The ice crystals can persist for days. They sublimate into vapour when the temperatures rise when they are in the sun - but this is not an instantaneous process - it relies on their surface area (to recieve sunlight on) and mass (to absorb the energy from the sun) - the smaller the particle the longer it takes to sublimate vapour off. Also the crystals can also grow as the water vapour in orbit deposits back onto the crystals during the cold night periods - its a complex dynamic environment! Ice crystals exist everywhere in space - I hope you've just made a typo/had a brain storm and you meant liquid in the above quote - believe me - Saturn's rings are millions of years old and are made of ice crystals. You are totally wrong saying ice crystals don't exist in space - if you can't accept that then you this thread is pointless as you are not seeking facts, but are just dogmatically insisting on your point of view. I await for the stream of abuse this post will generate, but before doing so please read these links. http://www.satobs.org/seesat/Aug-2001/0242.html http://www.springerlink.com/content/g226hk178686672p/ http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntr..._1990016192.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Take Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 China - I think you have the most appropriate signature of anyone on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 lmao as slim realises the fundermental hard for non existant ice crystals to go out of focus isnt it slim. debunkers have been falsely peddling that shit for years .. like i have said first we will eliminate what the footage doesnt show .. then speculate as to what it does depict. You think there's no ice in space? Read up on the Kupier Belt for example, and come back with that statement again. i dont know who you think you are slim demanding answers .. ive told you do your research or i will fuuk you in the arse. I'm asking you questions to back up what your saying, that's all. Why are you getting so upset about it? what was this bullshit about if you acknowledge now after having it pointed out too you that there is no liquid water in space.. I've never claimed there was liquid water in space. What I'm questioning is your understanding of what happens to ice in a vaccum at both high and low temperatures. You said it was the same thing, and it isn't. You're wrong, sorry. how do you know ice doesnt vapourise/sublimate from a comet in deep space when super freezing anyway Because it's tail dissapears. It's explained in very simple language here: http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/com...ublimation.html comets are also depleted by sublimation each time they come near the Sun. Ultimately, old comets may break into several pieces or even completely disintegrate. In some cases, the comet may have a solid rocky core that is then left to travel around the comet's orbit as a dark barren asteroid. Right, well done, the suns radiation causes the ice to sublimate. The temperature rises. This doesn't happen when its away from the sun, because what happens to the comet when it's hot is different from what happens when it's cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 What does sublimate mean please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha-acid Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 (edited) What does sublimate mean please? You didn't do science at School or Uni then , Ohh Im so disapointed expected better from the Mod who is ermm so at the "cutting edge" of everything Edited June 25, 2009 by alpha-acid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman2 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) its a sad day when both the towering intellectual giants of the manx forums have to make long posts about no ice in space etc .. and attatch those comments to me .. just total and utter lies. you consider yourselves intellectuals yet you have to stoop to the lowest of the low. .. shabby shabby conduct even by your standards slim .. but i never thought china would stoop so low.. i will donate £1000 to the local hospice if either of you respectable honest men can quote me as saying anywhere on any forum in the world that theres no ice in space etc etc.. i really just dont believe china could stoop so low. shameful shameful behavior .. i mix with some down to earth gritty people but i know none of them would stoop that low just to save face when they have been proved wrong by solid well sourced data.. no ice in space you say i said china ffs unreal i thought you had a bit of class about you .. its too be expected of slim grabbing at anything to save face he is a forum chameleon and has absolutely no pride in his words its all about appearances with him FACTS/TRUTH are only secondary considerations but you china i just really dont believe it.. shame on the pair of you stooping so low to save face against someone you both consider a retard.. you may not like the way i sourced and presented my data and it tore your theories to bits .. you may take pleasure in constructing your posts absolutely bleeding with pomposity .. you are without doubt one of the most arrogant people i have come across ever. but total and utter fabrication to appear to have not lost face is absolutely fucking shameful. i will post the reciept from the hospice to this thread if you manage to quote me on the alledged quotes .. i have at least got enough integrity too do that .. infact i may be a rough diamond but i have more integrity in my little finger than both of you have between you in your whole bodies .. shameful shameful conduct. Edited June 26, 2009 by manxman2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I'm almost tempted to post the 'I love this thread' picture. Thought you might find this useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.