Evolutionary Science And Its Implications

[Slim]

its a sad day when both the towering intellectual giants of the manx forums have to make long posts about no ice in space etc .. and attatch those comments to me .. just total and utter lies.

 

Lol!

[ans]

What does sublimate mean please?

You didn't do science at School or Uni then , Ohh Im so disapointed expected better from the Mod who is ermm so at the "cutting edge" of everything

 

I'm not asking him to explain it because I don't understand it myself, but because I don't believe he does. He's incapable of putting anything in his own words, it's all copy and paste from YouTube comments.

[Lao]

i will donate £1000 to the local hospice if either of you respectable honest men can quote me as saying anywhere on any forum in the world that theres no ice in space etc etc..

 

Manxman2 here is your comment that has prompted the last few posts from slim and chinahand, i can only assume from the complete reversal of direction in your argument that this quote is a mistake, perhaps a typo. but it does prove that neither slim nor chinahand are being underhand in their arguments, they are simply adressing this statement.

 

and the hospice will be very grateful for your donation.

 

.. you have more chance of entering and winning every lottery in the would on the same weekend as you have of seeing a singular ice crystal in space.

[manxman2]

Loa said.

 

a more pertinant question might be what would cause ice to melt in space at all, if it does not meet with the friction of an atmoshere or collide with an object travelling at speed?

 

i dont claim to be an expert on the subject, and the above might be better explained by someone with more up to date knowledge on the subject

 

 

i said.

 

 

ice doesnt melt in space .. it either super heats or super freezes .. which is for all intents and purposes the same thing.

 

it sublimates.

 

and i do not claim to be an expert either .. but i now know some people who are .. thanks for the advice .. atleast now someone is making an effort.

 

 

 

Slim said.

 

 

Can you explain how super heating is the same as super freezing? What has 'super freezing' got to do with melting?

 

 

I said.

 

 

super freezing and heating have virtually the same effect slim gasation i.e. sublimation.

 

basic school boy physics slim thought you may have knew that.

Slim said.

If it's basic school boy physics, why don't you explain to me how ice sublimates in space due to low temperatures like I asked? If ice sublimates at both high and low temperatures, are you saying there is no ice in space?

 

Why is it more pertinent to ask what would cause ice to melt in space? What are you trying to say?

 

 

I said.

 

 

if you wanbt to know slim research it yourself as i have .. i will decide what and when i post thanks.

 

 

Slim said

 

 

Why would you need to research basic schoolboy physics manxman2?

 

Do you know what this is?

 

 

 

 

 

Do you know why a comet only has a tail when it gets near the sun?

 

Do you know you're talking out of your hoop?

 

 

I said.

 

 

i know fullwell slim .. your determined to split hairs on anything.

 

 

see slim no liquid water in space .. all water molecules are either ice or vapour.

 

Design Reference Mission Case Study Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy Science Steering Committee.

 

SOFIA and the Formation of Water in the Cold Interstellar Medium

Fig. 1 shows a schematic of the oxygen chemistry that is believed to power water

formation in interstellar space. Chemical models (see Elitzur & de Jong 1978, Neufeld et al.

1995) show that for T >300 K, water vapor will account for most of the gas-phase oxygen

that is not bound as CO, as a result of the neutral-neutral reactions: H2 + O ! OH +

H and H2 + OH ! H2O + H. At temperatures less than 300 K, however, these reactions

are negligibly slow because they possess significant activation energy barriers. Gas-phase

water is then produced either by means of reactions of atomic oxygen with hydrogen on

grain surfaces with subsequent sublimation or via cosmic-ray driven ion-neutral chemistry,

as shown in Fig. 1. Water formed on grains will remain frozen on the grain until either the

grain temperature exceeds 110 K or the water molecule is photodesorbed by a UV photon.

SWAS and Odin observations have determined that the water vapor abundance in cold

gas is several orders of magnitude below theoretical expectations (see, e.g. Bergin et al.

2001). The primary solution provided as an answer to this question is that the formation of

water ice on grains results in a depletion of atomic oxygen from the gas. In this model the

fuel for the chemistry, oxygen atoms, is frozen onto grains in the form of water ice. This ice

will not evaporate unless temperatures exceed 110 K (Fraser et al. 2001) and hence most

oxygen is essentially unavailable to make water vapor or molecular oxygen in the gas. Thus

the low abundance of water vapor hints at a lack of gaseous atomic oxygen in the densest

regions of molecular cloud cores. Even a little amount of oxygen in the gas would create

water vapor that could be detected by SWAS and ODIN.

Herschel has a key program that focuses exclusively on water, Water in Star-Forming

Regions with Herschel (WISH; PI: E. van Dishoeck). This program will survey the spectrum

of activity in both low and high mass star forming regions. With access to multiple transi-

tions of both ortho and para forms of water, and higher angular resolution than SWAS/Odin,

Herschel will determine accurate water vapor abundances and thereby challenge these theo-

ries.

 

full evaluation here.

 

http://www.sofia.usra.edu/Science/science_.../Bergin2008.pdf

 

 

comets.

 

 

"The surface is about 5 percent ice, and the rest is just dark dirt. So it's like a very dirty skating rink."

 

source.

national geographic.

 

 

why not try sourcing your data slim.

 

 

Slim said.

 

 

I didn't say there was liquid in space. I'm questioning your statement regarding super freezing: "ice doesnt melt in space .. it either super heats or super freezes .. which is for all intents and purposes the same thing."

Why not try understanding the question manxman2, why doesn't the ice on the comet sublimate, if freezing and heating have the same effect? Why is it that the ice stays ice when it's further from the suns radiation but when it nears the sun, the ice turns into vapor forming the tail? Heating and cooling: not the same thing. The opposite in fact, a fairly basic principle of physics!

 

 

I said.

 

 

slim what part of i will post what i like when i like did you not understand ..??

 

lmao as slim realises the fundermental basis of his shuttle footage arguement is disintergrating in front of him lol.

 

hard for non existant ice crystals to go out of focus isnt it slim. debunkers have been falsely peddling that shit for years .. like i have said first we will eliminate what the footage doesnt show .. then speculate as to what it does depict.

 

i dont know who you think you are slim demanding answers .. ive told you do your research or i will fuuk you in the arse.

 

The opposite in fact, a fairly basic principle of physics. i am going to use that line to whip you with whipping boy .. your a joke.

 

your just repeating questions already answered on previous page .. and i am not supplying the other link to the virtually the same thing quote until i put up the shuttle footage thread then you can read it. .. until then do your own research .. and for the record i dont give a flying fuuk about comets and your efforts to diversify the discussion.

 

and if you think comet ice is chemically identical to shuttle ice then feel free to prove it.

 

i will bet you cannot..

 

chubby brown wrote a great song for you slim m8 .. it was called the back scuttle.

 

and heres another big numbers throw away line from the same world renowned physicist .. you have more chance of entering and winning every lottery in the would on the same weekend as you have of seeing a singular ice crystal in space.

................................................................................

....................................................................

 

 

 

 

Do you know why a comet only has a tail when it gets near the sun?

 

Do you know you're talking out of your hoop?

 

 

 

 

 

what was this bullshit about if you acknowledge now after having it pointed out too you that there is no liquid water in space..

how do you know ice doesnt vapourise/sublimate from a comet in deep space when super freezing anyway ..?? .. link to anything relevent to your unconfirmed/guess/assertion please .. again i will wager you cannot. .. ice does sublimate in deep space .. it just does it much more slowly..

 

try sticking your fingers onto some dry ice slim .. you will get them burned worse than here.

 

 

comets are also depleted by sublimation each time they come near the Sun. Ultimately, old comets may break into several pieces or even completely disintegrate. In some cases, the comet may have a solid rocky core that is then left to travel around the comet's orbit as a dark barren asteroid.

 

 

Slim says.

 

 

You think there's no ice in space? Read up on the Kupier Belt for example, and come back with that statement again.

 

I'm asking you questions to back up what your saying, that's all. Why are you getting so upset about it?

I've never claimed there was liquid water in space. What I'm questioning is your understanding of what happens to ice in a vaccum at both high and low temperatures. You said it was the same thing, and it isn't. You're wrong, sorry.

Because it's tail dissapears. It's explained in very simple language here: http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/com...ublimation.html

Right, well done, the suns radiation causes the ice to sublimate. The temperature rises. This doesn't happen when its away from the sun, because what happens to the comet when it's hot is different from what happens when it's cold.

 

 

I say.

 

 

A comets tail disappears you say .. more incorrect assumption slim.

A comets tail does not disappear it mre becomes invisible in our norml light spectrum .. its has a clear tail in the infra red spectrum .. as it sublimates/vaporises its various components no matter what the temperature depending on how old the comet is and how well insulted the various materials are.

 

A comet like halle bop has an estimated 2000 star passes before extinction or if it has a solid rock core becomes an asteroid.

 

The diagram you posted above clearly shows your intent on showing the different transitional stages of a water molecule in space .. that was before i made it abundantly clear to you that water in space only exists in solid or gaseous form.

 

Keep digging your own verbal grave .. twisting other peoples words or plain fabricating them to look and sound the part .. i will just keep posting solid indisputable fact and links to that fact ..you will notice the links were from pretty indisputable sources so keep guessing slim and i will just keep shooting your guesses down with true facts not guestimates .. everything i put here is linkable to its source.

Edited June 26, 2009 by manxman2

[manxman2]

What does sublimate mean please?

You didn't do science at School or Uni then , Ohh Im so disapointed expected better from the Mod who is ermm so at the "cutting edge" of everything

 

I'm not asking him to explain it because I don't understand it myself, but because I don't believe he does. He's incapable of putting anything in his own words, it's all copy and paste from YouTube comments.

 

 

this is about your sixth post on this along with run of the mill taunts and insults .. par for the course really .

i did think the irony in your postings was intentional .. do you really believe that i cannot read and store that knowledge for future utilisation just because i dont type my posting out first into a word proccessor and spell check it etc.

 

if you think i am some hick yokel then your as thick as horseshit and it was a waste of a university course that someone else would have put to better use you middle class arrogant tosser.

[Slim]

A comets tail disappears you say .. more incorrect assumption slim.

A comets tail does not disappear it mre becomes invisible in our norml light spectrum .. its has a clear tail in the infra red spectrum .. as it sublimates/vaporises its various components no matter what the temperature depending on how old the comet is and how well insulted the various materials are.

 

That's simply incorrect. I'm talking about the tail formed from the sublimation effect you raised as the comet gets close to the sun, that dissapears when it goes away from the sun. This is because it's the suns radiation that causes the sublimation that creates the tail. I'm using that example to demonstrate that sublimation of a solid (the ice of the comet) to a gas (the tail) only happens when it's heated, not cooled. How is anything that's visible in the infra red spectrum applicable to a discussion about ice sublimation? Does the vapour suddenly become invisible only in infra red at certain temperatures?

 

A comet like halle bop has an estimated 2000 star passes before extinction or if it has a solid rock core becomes an asteroid.

 

Yes, passes. It gets smaller as it passes a heat source. It doesn't get smaller out in deeper space away from the star. That's the point I'm trying to get you to understand, the effect of heating and cooling on ice in a vacuum isn't the same, as demonstrated by a comet.

 

The diagram you posted above clearly shows your intent on showing the different transitional stages of a water molecule in space .. that was before i made it abundantly clear to you that water in space only exists in solid or gaseous form.

 

Which the diagram clearly shows using the vertical axis, yes. What's your point?

 

Keep digging your own verbal grave .. twisting other peoples words or plain fabricating them to look and sound the part .. i will just keep posting solid indisputable fact and links to that fact ..you will notice the links were from pretty indisputable sources so keep guessing slim and i will just keep shooting your guesses down with true facts not guestimates .. everything i put here is linkable to its source.

 

Where's your linkable source that says heating and cooling have the same effect on ice in space?

[manxman2]

i will donate £1000 to the local hospice if either of you respectable honest men can quote me as saying anywhere on any forum in the world that theres no ice in space etc etc..

 

Manxman2 here is your comment that has prompted the last few posts from slim and chinahand, i can only assume from the complete reversal of direction in your argument that this quote is a mistake, perhaps a typo. but it does prove that neither slim nor chinahand are being underhand in their arguments, they are simply adressing this statement.

 

and the hospice will be very grateful for your donation.

 

.. you have more chance of entering and winning every lottery in the would on the same weekend as you have of seeing a singular ice crystal in space.

 

you mean my honest men quote after the fabricated quotes of mine loa..?

 

the quote below not was not a mistake .. i said it was made by a world renowned astro physicist as i said when i posted it .. i also said i would post a link to it at a later date on the shuttle thread i will post .. but that has been conveniently skipped over as per. .. and it is just being used now as a distraction tactic by the straw graspers because they see bit by bit their ice particle theorie disintegrate before them..

 

you have more chance of entering and winning every lottery in the would on the same weekend as you have of seeing a singular ice crystal in space

 

you have more chance of entering and winning every lottery in the would on the same weekend as you have of seeing a singular ice crystal in space

 

someone had better explain singular ice crystal to them .. alone solo by itself one only etc.

[Lao]

in your nice little "you said/they said" post you forgot to mention this:

 

its a sad day when both the towering intellectual giants of the manx forums have to make long posts about no ice in space etc .. and attatch those comments to me .. just total and utter lies.

 

this is you accusing them of underhand argument tactics, you are maligning their character by claiming to be the victim of having them put words in your mouth and you then went on to say this:

 

you consider yourselves intellectuals yet you have to stoop to the lowest of the low. .. shabby shabby conduct even by your standards slim .. but i never thought china would stoop so low..

 

bit of rightous indignation on your part followed by:

 

i will donate £1000 to the local hospice if either of you respectable honest men can quote me as saying anywhere on any forum in the world that theres no ice in space etc etc..

 

i have since pointed out to you that your post does claim that there is no ice in space. when can the charity expect your kind donation?

 

we all know that you believe that the objects on the video are something other than ice, but at this time we are prepared to believe that it is ice.

 

also is it so hard to get my name right? its 3 letters! Lao that its, its written beside every post i make.

[Slim]

you have more chance of entering and winning every lottery in the would on the same weekend as you have of seeing a singular ice crystal in space

 

Who said that?

 

Your video didn't have a singular object, it had hundreds. What's the relevance of the quote?

[Lao]

i am simply pointing out to you why they think,that you think there is no ice in space.

 

you obviously believe that there is ice in space that is clear now.

 

however all three of us got the impression from your posts that you did not believe there was ice in space.

 

im sure you can see how wording your post differently may have lead to less confusion.

 

now that i read back over it all, you seem to have been milking the fact that i said melts rather than sublimates, which is kinda funny as i was keeping it simple for you as to be honest i thought you were a bit simple, in future if you want to score cheap points in this fashion, a simple post saying" didnt you mean sublimates?" would have been far more effective.

 

but at least you will feel good about it all after you have donated the money.

[ans]

if you think i am some hick yokel then your as thick as horseshit and it was a waste of a university course that someone else would have put to better use you middle class arrogant tosser.

 

I do think that and and I didn't go to university, I left school at 16 to work in the same factory that my father still works in after 40+ years. Hardly 'middle class'.

 

I still gleefully await the explanation of sublimation in your own words that you're so inexplicably avoiding giving. For someone so insistent that other people back up their own statements with demonstrations of their own understanding, I'm puzzled why you would be so reluctant to comply with such a simple request.

 

I imagine the Hospice are rubbing their hands at their impending donation. Will you get a picture of you handing over the cheque please, that would be super.

[manxman2]

i am simply pointing out to you why they think,that you think there is no ice in space.

 

you obviously believe that there is ice in space that is clear now.

 

however all three of us got the impression from your posts that you did not believe there was ice in space.

 

im sure you can see how wording your post differently may have lead to less confusion.

 

now that i read back over it all, you seem to have been milking the fact that i said melts rather than sublimates, which is kinda funny as i was keeping it simple for you as to be honest i thought you were a bit simple, in future if you want to score cheap points in this fashion, a simple post saying" didnt you mean sublimates?" would have been far more effective.

 

but at least you will feel good about it all after you have donated the money.

 

no i fail to see how there was any genuine mis-understanding .. it was simply a piece of flotsam for the drowning men to latch onto .. as indeed i knew slim would hence my !!here another big numbers etc etc..

 

and i didnt milk you melting quote at all loa .. i added to it nice and simple that water is only in 2 states in space .. slim seized on the super freezing part as a knit picking exercise .. he obviously hasnt seen ice steam when taken from a freezer for example .. never mind the extreme temperatures in deep space where the same process takes place as it vapourises/sublimates to gas along with many other elements combined in a comet ..

 

but thats just a solid fact .. slim doesnt like proven fact.

 

he was royally fucked with solid data and links to his basic unsourced rubbish thats why he dissapeared up his own ass for 6 hours on this thread .. until china came along with his nausea.

 

the only bit of chinas posting that wasnt either a direct insult or a thinly disguised one consisted of some words he selected out of the 3 links he put up .. he edited it very carefully as when you read the links .. what he states as fact the writers term as !!possible!! !maybe!! !!could if!! etc but i will take that arrogant twat to task later.

Edited June 26, 2009 by manxman2

[manxman2]

if you think i am some hick yokel then your as thick as horseshit and it was a waste of a university course that someone else would have put to better use you middle class arrogant tosser.

 

I do think that and and I didn't go to university, I left school at 16 to work in the same factory that my father still works in after 40+ years. Hardly 'middle class'.

 

I still gleefully await the explanation of sublimation in your own words that you're so inexplicably avoiding giving. For someone so insistent that other people back up their own statements with demonstrations of their own understanding, I'm puzzled why you would be so reluctant to comply with such a simple request.

 

I imagine the Hospice are rubbing their hands at their impending donation. Will you get a picture of you handing over the cheque please, that would be super.

 

well dont hold your breathe is all i can say.. .. im not your nodding dog.

[Slim]

and i didnt milk you melting quote at all loa .. i added to it nice and simple that water is only in 2 states in space .. slim seized on the super freezing part as a knit picking exercise .. he obviously hasnt seen ice steam when taken from a freezer for example .. never mind the extreme temperatures in deep space where the same process takes place as it vapourises/sublimates to gas along with many other elements combined in a comet ..

 

but thats just a solid fact .. slim doesnt like proven fact.

 

Ice warms up when you take it from the freezer you nut job. Does ice steam when you put it from the warm into the freezer? No!

[Slim]

im sure you would have included a quote in your post had you been able to .. and relished my having to keep my word with the hospice another £1000 ontop of what i have already donated would have meant nothing.

 

You've yet to back up the quote with a link, until you do, you said it, and you owe the hospice dosh.