Lisenchuk Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 So Gef the talking Mongoose never really existed then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macmannin Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Are you shagging a kitchen sink Alan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Your a smart guy. Do you really feel you can justify a higher hourly rate than a graduate in India? Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 But the Manx were convinced until quite recently that they were seeing such things.There is NO reliable, independent evidence for this, just the writings of some mildy racist English 'gentlemen'. None. I know I know. I am just making up nonsense to get Monkeyboy worked up, as it is too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Hate to speculate what the secret prize is but thank you anyway for that, Barrie. The understandable confusion on this is caused as you say by differing definitions of nationality and a shifting political situation over the centuries. It is pedantic to say that a person from the British Isles is not British. It is a plain geographical fact. Of course the Manx are British - right in the middle of the British Isles! I think it is a very small minority who would argue otherwise. Monkey - if you are from the British Isles why are you not British? Doesn't mean you are English. You are Manx British. What gets your goat so much about that? Because British refers to somebody from the United Kingdom. The IOM is not part of the UK, never has been & God willing never will be. Barrie is right to point out the technical details of nationality such as passports which in our case is dealt with by the UK because the perception is that we are not big enough to do it ourselves. We pay them to piggy back their sovereignty. Does it mean we're British - does it bollocks, although some people may consider it does. What is just incorrect is your assumption that because we are in the British Isles we are British. That is unarguably complete bollocks. We could be completely independant in every way whilst still being in the British Isles - it is simply a geographical description, nothing more. You only have to look at Eire to see that. I know all about the history and what is part of what. I think you would find that most of your Manx compatriots take a different view and are proud of their British nationality. Of course it is a geographical description but it is much more than that. The British people of the British Isles share an outlook and way of life which is easier to see if viewed from the perspective of say, France or Spain than it is from Britain. We have much more that binds us than separates us. If you think that yours is a widely held view then you could stand for election on an independence platform and see how far you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 As is the case with putting Manx on your application form. You can't because your nationality is British. As for Ireland, also of course part of the British Isles, although not even a member of the Commonwealth, Irish citizens can vote in UK elections and vice versa. That is just pure fantasy. I'm Manx & cannot (nor would want to) vote in UK elections, neither can people from Eire. Nor can people from the UK vote in Irish elections. And you wonder why I don't want to be British! Where else would you find an otherwise lucid, intelligent & reasoned person making such ridiculous claims with the sole purpose of inflating the self importance of their own country! I doubt you even know your doing it. Your Empire is long gone. Get over it! No fantasy in my post. Look up the facts. People from UK can vote in Eire and vice versa. I know you don't want to be British so it's a pity that you are really. I am not trying to inflate the importance of Britain; that is long gone as I recognise fully. I think my comments in other threads would confirm that I am under no illusions in that direction. As a force we are finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Read the Proceedings of the Antiquarian Society from Vol VII No. 5 March 1963 to April 1966 by Victor Cavendish Bentinck Well to be fair if you wanted know about in-breeding who better to ask than a member of the English aristocracy? Actually I suspect if there's any folktales being told around here,it's this old myth about a high rate of genetic problems. Partly because no one ever gives any evidence for it, but also because the Manx have always been exogamous. How could we be anything else, given where we are between two much larger islands and given that before about 1970 most long distance travel was by sea. Recently someone did some isotope analysis from the Balladoole cemetery (Christian, pre-Viking, post-Roman) from a time we know little about and there was supposed to be little trade or movement or civilisation. Isotope analysis tells you where people grew up (or at least where they were living where they grew their second set of teeth). Half of those buried were from outside the Isle of Man. One of them probably grew up in Africa. Same as it ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Actually I suspect if there's any folktales being told around here,it's this old myth about a high rate of genetic problems. Partly because no one ever gives any evidence for it, but also because the Manx have always been exogamous. How could we be anything else, given where we are between two much larger islands and given that before about 1970 most long distance travel was by sea. I think that's right. It is largely a myth. The population of St Kilda were studied for this and there was little evidence from a much smaller population leading an extremely arduous existence with a great deal of inbreeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Runner Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 According to the recent TV series with Andrew Marr on Sunday evenings we are ALL descended from a single woman who was last seen walking along a ditch on her journey North out of Africa to Europe. We are all related then and as the old thing about six degrees of separation says we can all, especially now with the interweb, find some connection between ourselves and any other human being on the planet. Because of the above I think we should all just get along and stop petty arguments caused by where we were born/ brought up. I would however, having said all that, just say one more thing:- I'm not racist BUT I think we should be careful of them Aliens, the ones that live in space, cant trust them buggers, they are different to us............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I would however, having said all that, just say one more thing:- I'm not racist BUT I think we should be careful of them Aliens, the ones that live in space, cant trust them buggers, they are different to us............. No I reckon we are distantly related to the ones in space to. Same kind of atoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 As is the case with putting Manx on your application form. You can't because your nationality is British. As for Ireland, also of course part of the British Isles, although not even a member of the Commonwealth, Irish citizens can vote in UK elections and vice versa. That is just pure fantasy. I'm Manx & cannot (nor would want to) vote in UK elections, neither can people from Eire. Nor can people from the UK vote in Irish elections. And you wonder why I don't want to be British! Where else would you find an otherwise lucid, intelligent & reasoned person making such ridiculous claims with the sole purpose of inflating the self importance of their own country! I doubt you even know your doing it. Your Empire is long gone. Get over it! No fantasy in my post. Look up the facts. People from UK can vote in Eire and vice versa. I know you don't want to be British so it's a pity that you are really. I am not trying to inflate the importance of Britain; that is long gone as I recognise fully. I think my comments in other threads would confirm that I am under no illusions in that direction. As a force we are finished. That is simply not true. To vote in a UK election you have to be resident in the UK. The same in Eire. That is just a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 As is the case with putting Manx on your application form. You can't because your nationality is British. As for Ireland, also of course part of the British Isles, although not even a member of the Commonwealth, Irish citizens can vote in UK elections and vice versa. That is just pure fantasy. I'm Manx & cannot (nor would want to) vote in UK elections, neither can people from Eire. Nor can people from the UK vote in Irish elections. And you wonder why I don't want to be British! Where else would you find an otherwise lucid, intelligent & reasoned person making such ridiculous claims with the sole purpose of inflating the self importance of their own country! I doubt you even know your doing it. Your Empire is long gone. Get over it! No fantasy in my post. Look up the facts. People from UK can vote in Eire and vice versa. I know you don't want to be British so it's a pity that you are really. I am not trying to inflate the importance of Britain; that is long gone as I recognise fully. I think my comments in other threads would confirm that I am under no illusions in that direction. As a force we are finished. That is simply not true. To vote in a UK election you have to be resident in the UK. The same in Eire. That is just a fact. Yes of course you have to be resident. I never said you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godred_Crovan Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 This is a disgusting thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Thank you for that pearl of wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Yes of course you have to be resident. I never said you didn't. There's always a danger that arguments about ethnicity and nationality become crossed. If you're talking about citizenship, wikipedia sums it up nicely: "There is no separate Manx citizenship. Citizenship is covered by UK law, and Manx people are classed as British citizens. However, unlike British citizens from the UK, those defined as Manxmen under Protocol 3 have a special endorsement placed in their passports stating that they are not allowed to benefit from EC provisions relating to employment or establishment. Those Manx persons with a parent or grandparent born in the United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland), or who have lived in the UK for five years, are deemed to have a sufficient relationship to the UK to not be subject to this provision." I consider myself to be Manx, even though that might not be technically correct in terms of my legal nationality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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