piebaps Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Bump! Only joking! I know this is old but the formula for Facebook is being reused over and over again. Some troll sets up a page about something controversial and sits back to watch it go viral. Not so long ago there was a page about dead babies, which contained playground jokes I can remember from school 30+ years ago. The anti-lobby got so stirred up and outraged the thing had been seen by millions. If they'd have all ignored it, it would simply have gone away. its almost like giving in to a whiny child. Once they know you pay them attention, they'll keep coming back for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotsAlan Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Alan,when you ask the question about equality of remuneration do you mean if a white worker is in the same country as the other people they're compared with? or people working in different economies? Yup. Same country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Alan,when you ask the question about equality of remuneration do you mean if a white worker is in the same country as the other people they're compared with? or people working in different economies? Yup. Same country. The pay should be for the job not the person... If you have the correct skills, competences and experience for the role then you should get the going rate. Comparison between the same job's in different companies is not so easy due to local labour markets and economies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 As is the case with putting Manx on your application form. You can't because your nationality is British. As for Ireland, also of course part of the British Isles, although not even a member of the Commonwealth, Irish citizens can vote in UK elections and vice versa. That is just pure fantasy. I'm Manx & cannot (nor would want to) vote in UK elections, neither can people from Eire. Nor can people from the UK vote in Irish elections. And you wonder why I don't want to be British! Where else would you find an otherwise lucid, intelligent & reasoned person making such ridiculous claims with the sole purpose of inflating the self importance of their own country! I doubt you even know your doing it. Your Empire is long gone. Get over it! No fantasy in my post. Look up the facts. People from UK can vote in Eire and vice versa. I know you don't want to be British so it's a pity that you are really. I am not trying to inflate the importance of Britain; that is long gone as I recognise fully. I think my comments in other threads would confirm that I am under no illusions in that direction. As a force we are finished. That is simply not true. To vote in a UK election you have to be resident in the UK. The same in Eire. That is just a fact. Yes of course you have to be resident. I never said you didn't. You said people from Eire can vote in the UK and vice versa. Well as a great majority of people from Eire are not resident in the UK and an even greater majority of people from the UK are not resident in Eire you are wrong. It's as simple as that. You also brought up the point initially to support your misguided view that any country in the British Isles is British. Eire is not British, it's as simple as that. People from Mozambique are also entitled to vote in the UK (by your definition) do you think they are British as well? As for your point about people from France & Spain considering us British, well a similar thing could be said of any number of places. The good people of New Zealand may well be considered by much of the world to be culturally similar to Australians. Their country is in Australasia. Presumably you think this makes them Australian? Good luck persuading a Kiwi of that. You may have a very weak argument that Manx people are in fact British due to technicalities with passports etc. which are mainly brought about by size related practicalities - Slim sums it up quite nicely above. But to claim Eire is British because it is in the British Isles or because its citizens along with over 2 billion others are allowed to vote when resident in the UK is nothing short of ridiculous. I think Gwynfor Evans (although undeniably British) summed it up quite well when describing Britishness as "a political synonym for Englishness which extends English culture over the Scots, Welsh & Irish" Arrogance on a large scale in other words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 People from Mozambique are also entitled to vote in the UK (by your definition) do you think they are British as well? They were portugese before. Maybe they are english now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Monkey, you obviously have a great dislike for the "British" on your passport. Your privilege of course. Perhaps you are a pure descendant of the ancient Celts or the Vikings in which case I could understand your stance a little more. Most of us are pretty mongrel when it come to our atecedents. I have Scottish, Irish and English ancestry and probably many more that I am unaware of. But in the beginning people arrived on this uninhabited island and shaped it their way and that has been happening ever since. Whatever the legal niceties of the situation, you sound very nationalist and I would still suggest that by comparison the majority of your compatriots are proud of and fully embrace their British identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Yup. Same country. It's still more nuanced than simply being racism. The employment market is a competative one, and different candidates may accept different offers. A foreign or migrant worker will often be prepared to work for less for the same job, he's got lower overheads, instead of supporting a wife, kids and a lifestyle locally he's sending the money home to be spent in the local currency and he's earning more than he could at home. He's going to get paid less to make himself more competitive in the job market. That's not racism at all, that's simply the nature of the migrant workforce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 common sense at last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Monkey, you obviously have a great dislike for the "British" on your passport. Your privilege of course. Perhaps you are a pure descendant of the ancient Celts or the Vikings in which case I could understand your stance a little more. Most of us are pretty mongrel when it come to our atecedents. I have Scottish, Irish and English ancestry and probably many more that I am unaware of. But in the beginning people arrived on this uninhabited island and shaped it their way and that has been happening ever since. Whatever the legal niceties of the situation, you sound very nationalist and I would still suggest that by comparison the majority of your compatriots are proud of and fully embrace their British identity. I only have a dislike of British on my passport because I am not British, I am Manx. I agree we are all mongels & that in the scheme of things nationality doesn't make a lot of difference. I would be no happier having French, Irish or Mongolian on my passport because I am not I am Manx. It's easy to label people you disagree with, with unpopular terms like nationalism. You can tell from my posts on other threads that I am not elitest in any way, I do not believe that anyone is worth more than anyone else regardless of their nationality, how much money they've got or where they live. That is just not me. Nevertheless I am proud of where I come from, proud to be Manx & would not want that to be consumed or overlooked by the delusions of grandeur of a neighbouring country. I would also suggest that a majority of my counterparts are similarly proud to be Manx & any pride in "fully embracing their British identity" is not only being exagerated by you, but also the result relentless belittling of our nationality by people such as yourself, our politicians and anyone else without the capacity to think for themselves. ETA In actual fact I couldn't care less what it says on my passport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Fair enough most of that and I wasn't using nationalist as a pejorative term. We'll have to agree to differ on the reasons for Manx pride in being British but that pride is evident and I think you do them a disservice by saying the reason for it is a lack of the capacity to think for themselves. There are a great many Manx people who have enriched and been enriched by playing their full part as Britons in British society. I don't believe they consider themselves foreigners in a foreign land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Monkeyboy - aside from the legalities which mark all Manx people as being British (British citizens), in regard to national identity, do you think Manx people are incorrect consider themselves both Manx and British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I consider myself as Manx first and British second. I am probably similar to many Scots, Irish or Welsh who are proud of their Gaelic roots but who accept the term British as the more widely used term for people coming from the British Isles. At the end of the day the world would be a boring place if we were all the same! We should both respect and celebrate our differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 When I travel abroad and hear people speaking English without a North American, Australasian, or Southern African twang I usually ask them if they are British - they will usually then narrow down this broader description - yep, I'm Welsh; I'm Scottish; I'm from London ... or whatever. Surprise surprise people have multiple signifiers, some are more important than others, some are recognized by the UN. Looking at a geographical rather than a political map the British Isles are reasonably easy to identify - but when you add in the overlays of politics and nationalism it gets a lot more complicated. I've known a few people who's only identification they'd accept was Yorkshire - they'd argue as voraciously as Monkey Boy that that was that and no point complicating it any further thank you. Each to their own. I'm British, and Manx with ancestry all over the place - my Kids even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Ok Put it this way..I was born in London Walthamstow E17 and I have a Manx Passport...My passport was issued in the name of the Lt Governor of the Isle of Man...I do not need a work permit...Am I British or Manx? . That sounds like a recipie for a really bad boy band- "Barrie if you've got to go away I think I can take the pain Don't you stay another day Oh in the morning there's a boat Just say it's the final post Don't stay another day" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey boy Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Monkeyboy - aside from the legalities which mark all Manx people as being British (British citizens), in regard to national identity, do you think Manx people are incorrect consider themselves both Manx and British. Monkeyboy - aside from the legalities which mark all Manx people as being British (British citizens), in regard to national identity, do you think Manx people are incorrect consider themselves both Manx and British. No not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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