Chinahand Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) China is once again showing its repressive side. The UK press is concentrating on its planned execution of a British bi-polar sufferer found guilty of drug smuggling. His competence to stand trial is very much disputed and its a sad case for China to use as an example of its international independence - it will be the first European executed for 50 years. It would be far better for it to acknowledge the flawed nature of the case and grant clemency - not totally impossible, but, given China's mood, unlikely! For me, more disturbing is its crack down on disidents with the imprisonment of Liu Xiaobo. He was one of the drafters of Charter 08 which called for democracy, civil society, and openness in China's politics. For doing this he was charged with "inciting subversion of state power" and after a closed trial imprisoned for 11 years. As well as all this the round ups and executions from the unrest in Xinjiang earlier in the year continue - link. None of this will reduce the political tensions left in Xinjiang and will, more likely than not, further radicalize the situation. Sad. A quick edit to add - the timings of all this over Xmas are unlikely to be a coincidence - the Chinese authorities have often used the distractions of the west's holiday season to do a bit of nasty house keeping. Edited May 19, 2011 by Chinahand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 China is once again showing its repressive side. Once again? Tibet since the 1950 invasion. And of course Tiananmen. To name but two instances in a long catalogue of repression Still there's always a place for people who don't care who they do business with as long as there's possible profit. http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Sam-Barks-i...form.5715449.jp The 19-year-old was joined by Chief Minister Tony Brown MHK, Trade and Industry Minister David Cretney MHK and director of the Isle of Man Ship Registry Dick Welsh, who also met with Chinese government officials and business leaders during the visit. I expect human rights was top of the agenda. Giving them the Olympic Games lost any chance of making them change their ways. What was the excuse, some crap about helping democracy? http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-oly...na-democracy.do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Their country --- their laws. End of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Didn't work at Nuremberg as a defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terse Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 A decent overview in The Independent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbms Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I do not agree with China's methods of punishment for even minor stuff nor it's oppression of its people or the population of countries it rules over, but when it comes to drug smuggling if you do this with full knowledge and for gain not due to force or blackmail etc then tough you take what is coming to you in whatever nation you get caught in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Their country --- their laws. End of. With respect, that is absolute tripe. The people have even less input into their government than we do. Those aren't THEIR laws, but laws that they have been told they must obey by others. They aren't the roles that the people have chosen to govern themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 Their country --- their laws. End of. With respect, that is absolute tripe. The people have even less input into their government than we do. Those aren't THEIR laws, but laws that they have been told they must obey by others. They aren't the roles that the people have chosen to govern themselves. Careful LDV - you are perfectly right there is no reason to say you HAVE TO respect other country's laws - but most Chinese I've met, and most opinion surveys in China (which are increasingly accurate), show that the death penalty and very harsh punishments are popular. If you could wave a magic wand and make China a democracy it is unlikely things would be much different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La_Dolce_Vita Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 But the punishments are carried out because a law exists. You know my politics enough - the issue is about who has created the law, who enforces, why they enforce it, and most importantly what justification they have for their authority. You would not agree with my assessment of governments, but even with you being a liberal I am sure you can recognise that the government and legal system is not something that the people have much participation in, nevermind meaningful input in decisionmaking as would befit as a democratic society. That is why I disagree with the statement 'It's their laws". It is the government's law. And to an arguable extent the people's perceptions of what is right and wrong in respect of the behaviours and their punishments is shaped by the legal system and the norms and values developed from meting out certain punishments with the States justification for them. If you could wave a magic wand and make China a democracy it is unlikely things would be much different.Do you mean a liberal democracy? I would agree with you. The United States still carries out capital punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle6969061.ece China executes more people than the rest of the world combined. The exact number of those put to death each year is a state secret, but there is no doubt that the authorities regard capital punishment as an important deterrent. more than 100 executions are carried out every month. Amnesty International said that 1,718 people were executed in 2008 — almost certainly a partial figure since many cases are never publicly reported. At present 68 crimes carry the death penalty in China, including killing a panda, tax fraud, rape, smuggling and corruption. "there is no doubt that the authorities regard capital punishment as an important deterrent" And to my mind, an important tool of repression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terse Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 ...the death penalty is popular in China, where it is viewed as a successful deterrent to serious crime. But the Chinese people are gradually becoming more sceptical, and many new judicial rules are aimed at stopping the police extracting confessions by torture. The Chinese media reports that the Supreme People's Court overturned 15 per cent of death sentences handed down in 2007 and 10 per cent in 2008. SOURCE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemonday Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 A British man convicted of drug smuggling in China has been executed, the Foreign Office has confirmed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8433285.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 A British man convicted of drug smuggling in China has been executed, the Foreign Office has confirmed.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8433285.stm Why do I suspect that if he had been middle class and white British, that the fuss made and outcome, might well have been very different? Or is that me being too cynical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Their country --- their laws. End of. With respect, that is absolute tripe. The people have even less input into their government than we do. Those aren't THEIR laws, but laws that they have been told they must obey by others. They aren't the roles that the people have chosen to govern themselves. Their issue --- NOT ours. We rightly complain when outsiders bitch about our way of life, if we don’t like some aspects of our way of life we do something about it. It’s down to them, We should keep our noses out and let the Chinese people go down whatever track they do and only get tense if they threaten us. We didn’t move from a feudal system to democracy (such as we have) within a century, China is making great strides from what it had been to where it is today at a blisteringly fast pace but with such a huge and diverse country it would be impossible to suddenly introduce our Western way of life. The effect would be disastrous. As for the drug mule who has been put down, basically tough. If nothing else it will send a message to others for the future and it SHOULD send a message to our government to treat scum as scum, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 A British man convicted of drug smuggling in China has been executed, the Foreign Office has confirmed.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8433285.stm Why do I suspect that if he had been middle class and white British, that the fuss made and outcome, might well have been very different? Or is that me being too cynical? No. It would probably have received little or even no press coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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