China's Politics And Stuff

[Evil Goblin]

It isn't why we have wars. Where did you get that idea from?

 

Why is it that human beings seem to have an obsession with trying to control each other and trying to force others to obey their particular views and rules?

Power. And just look at Chinese government and the people.

yet your views indicate quite the opposite

My views are not limited and not distorted by assuming that every nation is composed of people who live in a democracy. I therefore see the matter as two governments (two elites) from different countries arguing about what to do with some man.

And what is wrong about minding our own business and letting others mind theirs?

I find it more interesting to know why you think it is wrong to criticise. We are not talking about dictating to people and destroying their democratic systems. And I have no problem with another government dictating to another if the result is a less oppressive punishment being carried out.

 

But the grammar of the question is all wrong. It is our business to be concerned about the welfare and situation for others, especially if we have a concern for justice and liberty. And whose business do you think it is. It isn't the Chinese people's, because as mentioned they do not construct and maintain the law.

 

(And I not a fighter for human freedom.)

There are none so blind as those who will not see!! Do you genuinely not see that you also are attempting to exercise power over others by insisting that you are right and so they must be wrong?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

There are none so blind as those who will not see!! Do you genuinely not see that you also are attempting to exercise power over others by insisting that you are right and so they must be wrong?

I am not personally exercising power. Not is the British government - it has none.

 

If 'A' has power over 'B', but 'A' cannot justify its claim to that authority then it shouldn't be allowed to use its power. If it asserts its authority over 'B' then I am quite happy to see another authority challenge that to the benefit of B.

And yes, the Chinese government is wrong to executive its drug dealers and smugglers.

Edited December 29, 2009 by La_Dolce_Vita

[Evil Goblin]

LDV - I only hope that you never achieve power - war will be inevitable. The true horror is that you simply cannot see it - that makes you a most dangerous delusional to hold any sort of power or influence.

[bluemonday]

Ah the Smuggy Wailoids have woken up

 

A country that reveres such junkies as Kate Moss has no right to lecture China on its drugs policy,

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-...eserve-die.html

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Wow, what an awful article from the Daily Mail. Talk about generalising about all drugs and misrepresenting what people actually think about those celebrities. Young people do not glamorise heroin! Maybe with cocaine.

 

And I think with people like Amy Winehouse we feel more pity or revulsion rather than revere such people. Few would want to be in their shoes.

[Albert Tatlock]

As for the drug mule who has been put down, basically tough. If nothing else it will send a message to others for the future and it SHOULD send a message to our government to treat scum as scum,

I think you are missing a very fundamental point...that whilst it is the right of the Chinese to do this, and their laws are very specific, the fact is there is actually provision within Chinese law for people who are mentally ill. The Chinese seem to have not taken this factor into account in this case, not followed even their own process in this case, nor listened to the evidence provided to prove mental illness in this case - according to those organisations fighting the defence of this individual.

I think you are missing a very fundamental point. Surely the ONLY issue is whether or not he has been treated any differently than a Chinese National. I suspect not...

I repeat, China has process under its laws for dealing with mentally ill people. That means all people under Chinese law, Chinese or not, deserve to be treated at least under that process. Those acting in this guys defence, say China did not observe their own due process in this case.

 

But China has a substantial record for breaching human rights, under 'the laws of China' or not. Just because a country creates the right to do something under its own law, doesn't necessarily make it right.

[Pragmatopian]

Assuming the Chinese judicial process was followed leading to a secure finding of guilt against the guy according to Chinese law what's the problem here? Somehow I doubt the UK government would make such a fuss if the United States executed a Briton who had committed a capital offence there.

 

For all the claims regarding the guy's mental illness I've seen no one present any hard evidence. It smacks of a desparate attempt to pressure China into granting clemency to avoid the bad PR.

[Evil Goblin]

Ever thought that, just maybe, McInstry and the Wail have a few valid points in there?

[jimbms]

He tried to smuggle drugs, he got caught, he got found guilty by the courts, he was given the punishment due for his crime in the country he committed it, he was executed under the letter of that nations law, end of story and if it prevents others smuggling and causing death misery and pain that addiction brings to addicts and their families then the deterrent worked. No matter what anyone says the deed is now done and nothing will change that.

[P.K.]

I repeat, China has process under its laws for dealing with mentally ill people. That means all people under Chinese law, Chinese or not, deserve to be treated at least under that process. Those acting in this guys defence, say China did not observe their own due process in this case.

 

But China has a substantial record for breaching human rights, under 'the laws of China' or not. Just because a country creates the right to do something under its own law, doesn't necessarily make it right.

It makes it right for China me old china, and that's the point.

 

Yes China has an appalling human rights record. But maybe, just maybe, that's what it takes to govern China. Not that you would know. Now chop chop...

[Miss Roo]

He tried to smuggle drugs, he got caught, he got found guilty by the courts, he was given the punishment due for his crime in the country he committed it, he was executed under the letter of that nations law, end of story and if it prevents others smuggling and causing death misery and pain that addiction brings to addicts and their families then the deterrent worked. No matter what anyone says the deed is now done and nothing will change that.

I have to agree with that.

[Keith]

As for the drug mule who has been put down, basically tough. If nothing else it will send a message to others for the future and it SHOULD send a message to our government to treat scum as scum,

 

Didn't work at Nuremberg as a defence.

 

Don’t be silly. The crimes that were tried at Nuremberg were crimes against humanity, crimes that were offences against all people of the world.

 

Of course they are totally different!

 

One involved killing Jews and mentally ill.

The other involved killing a Muslim who was mentally ill.

 

So ill he couldn’t be married and have kids, so ill he couldn’t hold down a stressful job, so ill he couldn’t manage to schlep his way round North Western China.

 

Yeah. Right.

 

Mentally ill people do indeed get married and have kids. They are also disproportionately unemployed and homeless. This guy had a stressful job but couldn't actually hold it down. So ill he was homeless in Poland when he was trying to get his 'peace song' recorded. You don't think your dislike of Muslims (as you list in your profile) could be clouding your already peculiar view point do you?

[thebees]

Utter nonsense. The whole news was rubbish tonight why is insignificant 'personal tragedy' news on the TV all the time? Some nutter shoots his child & wife, not exactly news that is likely to affect anyone greatly. Some dope smuggler breaks the law in China, gets punished by their law and it causes government unrest, give me a feckin break, how trivial is all this?

 

Here before you go throwing sticks at China, sort yer mates out.

[Chinahand]

I agree with you thebees - this isn't really news, just a twisted sort of ambulance chasing and its ilk.

 

But it is representative of the way China ignores its own procedures.

 

I studied under Prof Donald Clarke - he's a world expert on China's legal system, as is Prof Jerome Cohen - both agree that the Chinese ignored there own regulations.

 

He was given a 1/2 hour trial, at his appeal he refused to be represented and delivered a meandering, bi-polar, mess which had the judges openly laughing at him - they then confirmed his death sentence. Attempts to get both a UK and a Chinese doctor to give him a psychiatric examination were refused without explanation.

 

Its only one example - and the only reason we are following it is because he was a UK citizen. But thousands of others face a similar process.

 

It isn't justice. Far from it.

[Rog]

One involved killing Jews and mentally ill.

The other involved killing a Muslim who was mentally ill.

 

Not so. One involved genocide and euthanasia of ‘useless eaters’, the other involved the execution of a drug mule.

 

Mentally ill people do indeed get married and have kids. They are also disproportionately unemployed and homeless. This guy had a stressful job but couldn't actually hold it down. So ill he was homeless in Poland when he was trying to get his 'peace song' recorded.

 

 

If he was that mentally ill how come he managed to get to Poland, and where were his family?

 

You don't think your dislike of Muslims (as you list in your profile) could be clouding your already peculiar view point do you?

 

Raca.

 

What I wrote in my profile is my dislike of ISLAM[/b/ which is NOT the same as a dislike of people ensnared in its clutches.