China's Politics And Stuff

[Rog]

Didn't work at Nuremberg as a defence.

 

Don’t be silly. The crimes that were tried at Nuremberg were crimes against humanity, crimes that were offences against all people of the world.

[Albert Tatlock]

As for the drug mule who has been put down, basically tough. If nothing else it will send a message to others for the future and it SHOULD send a message to our government to treat scum as scum,

I think you are missing a very fundamental point...that whilst it is the right of the Chinese to do this, and their laws are very specific, the fact is there is actually provision within Chinese law for people who are mentally ill. The Chinese seem to have not taken this factor into account in this case, not followed even their own process in this case, nor listened to the evidence provided to prove mental illness in this case - according to those organisations fighting the defence of this individual.

[Rog]

As for the drug mule who has been put down, basically tough. If nothing else it will send a message to others for the future and it SHOULD send a message to our government to treat scum as scum,

I think you are missing a very fundamental point...that whilst it is the right of the Chinese to do this, and their laws are very specific, the fact is there is actually provision within Chinese law for people who are mentally ill. The Chinese seem to have not taken this factor into account in this case, not followed even their own process in this case, nor listened to the evidence provided to prove mental illness in this case - according to those organisations fighting the defence of this individual.

 

So ill he couldn’t be married and have kids, so ill he couldn’t hold down a stressful job, so ill he couldn’t manage to schlep his way round North Western China.

 

Yeah. Right.

[Albert Tatlock]

As for the drug mule who has been put down, basically tough. If nothing else it will send a message to others for the future and it SHOULD send a message to our government to treat scum as scum,

I think you are missing a very fundamental point...that whilst it is the right of the Chinese to do this, and their laws are very specific, the fact is there is actually provision within Chinese law for people who are mentally ill. The Chinese seem to have not taken this factor into account in this case, not followed even their own process in this case, nor listened to the evidence provided to prove mental illness in this case - according to those organisations fighting the defence of this individual.

 

So ill he couldn’t be married and have kids, so ill he couldn’t hold down a stressful job, so ill he couldn’t manage to schlep his way round North Western China.

 

Yeah. Right.

What the hell has that to do with the price of fish?

 

I don't know about China, but Rogland sounds a very strange place to live.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

Their issue --- NOT ours.

You mean the Chinese government's issue? And it does involve a British citizen with whom the British government would not treat quite so barbarically we they under British law. I think it quite understandable that comparatives are made. And understandable that people in Britain would want a less barbaric sentencing.

 

We rightly complain when outsiders bitch about our way of life, if we don’t like some aspects of our way of life we do something about it.

But it is not right that people complain when others criticise the Isle of Man from outside and within the Island, if the criticism is justified.

 

... at a blisteringly fast pace but with such a huge and diverse country it would be impossible to suddenly introduce our Western way of life. The effect would be disastrous.

Whose talking about introducing a liberal democratic system? And I suspect it is a likely outcome in the future, but not inevitable.

[Rog]

You mean the Chinese government's issue? And it does involve a British citizen with whom the British government would not treat quite so barbarically we they under British law. I think it quite understandable that comparatives are made. And understandable that people in Britain would want a less barbaric sentencing.

 

To start with the “British” citizen broke the law in a foreign country. The fact that in Britain a drug smuggler would not be put down is probably more cause for concern than that a drug smuggler (now) has been put down.

 

As for assuming that most British people deplore the death penalty for certain crimes, I wouldn’t bet on THAT one,

 

But it is not right that people complain when others criticise the Isle of Man from outside and within the Island, if the criticism is justified.

 

If people on the Island, or who have exceedingly strong association with the Island are entitled to state their opinions as involved parties.

 

We are not involved parties in the case of a “British” man who got involved in drug smuggling. It is NOT our business but it is to our shame that a piece of “our” scum has broken the law in a foreign land.

[asitis]

Well done China, not for executing this man which I don't take any pleasure in, but in having the guts to implement it's laws in the manner it chooses, perhaps if the UK had less bleeding hearts and apologists it would be a better and safer place to live.

[Slim]

So ill he couldn’t be married and have kids, so ill he couldn’t hold down a stressful job, so ill he couldn’t manage to schlep his way round North Western China.

 

Yeah. Right.

 

[Rog]

So ill he couldn’t be married and have kids, so ill he couldn’t hold down a stressful job, so ill he couldn’t manage to schlep his way round North Western China.

 

Yeah. Right.

 

 

Strikes me justice was served.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

As for assuming that most British people deplore the death penalty for certain crimes, I wouldn’t bet on THAT one

I wouldn't either, so what?

If people on the Island, or who have exceedingly strong association with the Island are entitled to state their opinions as involved parties.

Anyone is entitled to state their opinion on matters. On almost anything. You can state your opinion on the laws in Mali, if you want. Or American politics maybe.

We are not involved parties in the case of a “British” man who got involved in drug smuggling. It is NOT our business but it is to our shame that a piece of “our” scum has broken the law in a foreign land.

We are involved parties because it is another human being who is being treated with a disgusting form of punishment by a government that has even less justification to control its people than the British one does. Edited December 29, 2009 by La_Dolce_Vita

[Evil Goblin]

It is pitiful to see the amount of Colonial Arrogance being displayed by Bruin and Co. As if the Chinese give a tinker's cuss about what the chattering classes of a has-been country of no particular importance thinks!! It is surely about time we learned to keep our noses out of other nations' affairs other than when their behaviour is of consequence to us. It would be better if the bleeding-hearts such as LDV concentrated on matters within their own sphere of influence - trouble is that doesn't stretch very far, does it?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

No, it doesn't extend very far. So what?

And we certainly shouldn't keep our noses out of what goes on in other countries. What a parochial, small-minded mentality we would have. Just because something happens within another country's borders does not mean it should be free from criticism. It is a pretty appalling state of things when we somehow think that every country in the world is a democracy where people are choosing how to govern themselves. Only then would your perspective have some merit.

[P.K.]

As for the drug mule who has been put down, basically tough. If nothing else it will send a message to others for the future and it SHOULD send a message to our government to treat scum as scum,

I think you are missing a very fundamental point...that whilst it is the right of the Chinese to do this, and their laws are very specific, the fact is there is actually provision within Chinese law for people who are mentally ill. The Chinese seem to have not taken this factor into account in this case, not followed even their own process in this case, nor listened to the evidence provided to prove mental illness in this case - according to those organisations fighting the defence of this individual.

I think you are missing a very fundamental point. Surely the ONLY issue is whether or not he has been treated any differently than a Chinese National. I suspect not...

[Evil Goblin]

No, it doesn't extend very far. So what?

And we certainly shouldn't keep our noses out of what goes on in other countries. What a parochial, small-minded mentality we would have. Just because something happens within another country's borders does not mean it should be free from criticism. It is a pretty appalling state of things when we somehow think that every country in the world is a democracy where people are choosing how to govern themselves. Only then would your perspective have some merit.

And this, LDV, is a perfect example of why we have wars!! Why is it that human beings seem to have an obsession with trying to control each other and trying to force others to obey their particular views and rules? You like to portray yourself as a fighter for human freedom, yet your views indicate quite the opposite. And what is wrong about minding our own business and letting others mind theirs?

[La_Dolce_Vita]

It isn't why we have wars. Where did you get that idea from?

 

Why is it that human beings seem to have an obsession with trying to control each other and trying to force others to obey their particular views and rules?

Power. And just look at Chinese government and the people.

yet your views indicate quite the opposite

My views are not limited and not distorted by assuming that every nation is composed of people who live in a democracy. I therefore see the matter as two governments (two elites) from different countries arguing about what to do with some man.

And what is wrong about minding our own business and letting others mind theirs?

I find it more interesting to know why you think it is wrong to criticise. We are not talking about dictating to people and destroying their democratic systems. And I have no problem with another government dictating to another if the result is a less oppressive punishment being carried out.

 

But the grammar of the question is all wrong. It is our business to be concerned about the welfare and situation for others, especially if we have a concern for justice and liberty. And whose business do you think it is. It isn't the Chinese people's, because as mentioned they do not construct and maintain the law.

 

(And I not a fighter for human freedom.)

Edited December 29, 2009 by La_Dolce_Vita