The Isle Of Man Needs Political Parties

[guzzi]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-14444649

 

I agree with this! Without parties our political process lacks accountability and, as he says, our "leaders" lack a compass and direction.

[Wake Up Call]

The Isle of Man doesn't need so many politicians. Why are we still overgoverned?

 

As a Rushen voter - one would do, three overcooks it.

 

Cut Tynwald by 50% and save millions. (And probably have a better standard of politician)

[guzzi]

The Isle of Man doesn't need so many politicians. Why are we still overgoverned?

 

As a Rushen voter - one would do, three overcooks it.

 

Cut Tynwald by 50% and save millions. (And probably have a better standard of politician)

 

Agree with you on that, it isn't as if there's scope for proportionality without parties or common platforms. But unless we have groupings of candidates around a common set of policies, instead of a collection of individual candidates with personal manifestos, how can we vote for a particular direction for the island?

[John Wright]

The numbers game is a blind alley

 

We do need parties so we have a true choice of policy and not personality and know who is liklely to be Chief Minister, instead of a cobbled deal being done post election based on who offers the best jobs to who ever else.

 

We are not over governed at national level, we have the minimum needed to form a cabinet or executive plus supporters and then to have an opposition and scrutiny via select committeess. Any fewer and the cabinet would have it all its own way and would not be able to be held accountable in Tynwald.

 

The system does need root and branch reform

 

24 elected members in 8 x 3 seat constituencies for the Keys for a fixed 5 year term, 8 elected members for Council elected at the mid point ofthe Keys term

 

No political members in Departments, just ministers. Every department to have a shadow select committee scrutineering to be chaired by an opposition member and no ministers to be able to sit on shadow scrutiny select committeees, or to vote for members so that they cannot stack them with government supportyers on jobs for boys.

 

All policy to be debated and set in Tynwald, with no separate voting for Keys and Council in other words make Tynwald the parliament and the executive would have to command a majority. No bishop, AG no vote (and able to address either branch on legislation), President of LC and Tynwald and Speaker of Keys to have a casting vote in favour status quo only, ie not normally to vote.

 

Keys and Council to be sub committees, in effect for legislation passing only. In case of dispute/disagreement to go to a vote in Tynwald. Simple majorities.

[pauld]

The island has to many sheadings, i dont think party politics is a wanted or needed thing, division of popylation would be more fair, i mean only three sheading as for as voting goes, and i mean all 3 areas have the same population size.

 

so all of the south, all douglas, maybe alittle of onchan, the rest of onchan and above making up the third district.

Idiots being elected from tiny populated sheadings is the problem.

Let each sheading represent 25,000 people.

 

Cast your eyes over the waters, and took a good look at what you wish for, not pretty is it.

[carbon selector]

Interesting thought out points from John W.

 

Why do we have political members? Is it to bolster the block vote? There needs to be scrutiny at Departmental level from political members, not gormless nodding dog yes men.

 

Back on topic, I think that political parties would give too much democracy to the Isle of Man.

 

We can't have democracy in a 'democracy' now, can we.

[guzzi]

The numbers game is a blind alley

 

......

 

We are not over governed at national level, we have the minimum needed to form a cabinet or executive plus supporters and then to have an opposition and scrutiny via select committeess. Any fewer and the cabinet would have it all its own way and would not be able to be held accountable in Tynwald.

 

 

OK, a solid argument, we need the minimum necessary to provide a government and an opposition. The number of MHK's isn't the fundamental issue, it is the lack of accountability and clear direction.

[guzzi]

Interesting thought out points from John W.

 

Why do we have political members? Is it to bolster the block vote? There needs to be scrutiny at Departmental level from political members, not gormless nodding dog yes men.

 

Back on topic, I think that political parties would give too much democracy to the Isle of Man.

 

We can't have democracy in a 'democracy' now, can we.

 

It's for patronage, and has to be done away with. The incumbent ministers use it to preserve their individual power bases.

[Addie]

I look at political parties in the UK and don't like what I see at all.

 

I think the party system can drown the efforts by any independant candidates and therefore choice. I supspect that a lot of MPs virtually have their success bought for them. Also, they have to toe the party line, regardless of personal judgement.

 

I will always prefer to vote for the man/woman and not the party.

[pauld]

I can see the benefits of party policy addie, atleast your vote is going to a kind of block vote for a future policy no matter where you live, whereas now we vote for candidates who all have differing policy for the future, and then achieve little.

[Chinahand]

Politics on the IOM is too managerial for political parties to florish. It's difficult to have an ideological position on bus routes, bin men, and sponsorship for the TT.

 

Sure you can have basic left right divisions, but creating a party platform and a manifesto isn't easy as quite simply there aren't enough political differences to create a distinctive message.

 

On the Island, people don't vote for the platform, but for the person, which will always have more influence in our small communities.

 

For parties to florish you need scale with loyal party workers supporting THEIR candidate. Here the person engaged in politics IS the candidate and the Parties are all dominated by personalities with more chiefs than indians and with egos always falling out.

 

About the only way I see political parties working is with a directly elected Chief Minister where there might be enough of an incentive for party workers to join together to support THEIR candidate and where that person has to produce a distinctive platform appealing to the entire Island and not just a few thousand people in a local constituency.

 

But that would be a multiyear evolution of the political process and I can still see that nice man who runs the chemist shop succeeding over a party platform as he can spout 95% the same bull as any party leader.

 

The main issue is the one John raises that out political system has to hold the executive to account and Tynwald has failed to do that as it is too small - everyone is in government.

 

We have to create an alternative centre of power - I hope the new committees will work, but if 90% of MHKs are either ministers or members of a department it won't.

 

Members of department should be scrapped - they are sinecures for loyalty to the executive - and rather up and comming MHKs looking for a ministership should wet there teeth on an Accountability committee critiquing a department and its minister. The heads of such committees should be regularly meeting with the Chief executive and holding the minister to account.

 

It is only by creating a separation of powers that effective oversight of government can be achieved. At the moment it is simply too much of a club with the chief minister holding the keys to all the jollies and cash, and hence having an pretty much automatic majority.

[Addie]

I can see the benefits of party policy addie, atleast your vote is going to a kind of block vote for a future policy no matter where you live, whereas now we vote for candidates who all have differing policy for the future, and then achieve little.

Maybe the alternative should be a reduction in the number of local commissions/councils along with an increase in their powers, these changes coupled with an all island election for an all island government? This island is too small for political local rivalry or regional preferences - attitudes that smack of village commissioner attitudes rather than national government.

 

An all island election would make each MHK responsible to everyone on this island, and not just a couple of housing estates in the east.

[Moghrey Mie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-isle-of-man-14444649

 

I agree with this! Without parties our political process lacks accountability and, as he says, our "leaders" lack a compass and direction.

 

Not sure how the 'compass' spins when you've got Dick Horsnell of UKIP and Manx EU Realist Group now being the spokesperson for the Liberal Vannin Party.

[Albert Tatlock]

OK, a solid argument, we need the minimum necessary to provide a government and an opposition. The number of MHK's isn't the fundamental issue, it is the lack of accountability and clear direction.

Agree 100%.

 

In the end, more often we never get anything like what we vote for by simply voting for 'the person' - in terms of overall direction or accountability. However, that said, we do actually have several political party's in existance already: Lib Vannin; Mec Vannin; Labour Party for starters.

 

What we are really short of is a reason for our politicians to align with political party's, and if there is not a party that aligns with their views, for them to form additional party(s) that do.

 

The main reason this alignment has not happened on a wider scale, other than IMO with the likes of Cretney to 'appeal' to some of his roots maybe, is that there has been no need for such an alignment - until now, and for the next few years. That is, now we are going to be short of money: so now people will want to align to protect jobs in the CS/PS, whilst others will be seeking to lose jobs and cut costs. Now some people will want to raise taxes, some will be against. Political alignment often goes hand in hand with limited choice, something spendthrift politicians have not had to face up to for 20 years or more on this island.

 

That's just the alignment of politicians. The people here also aren't aligned. Sorry to say, but generally people here have little idea of what is going on in the island, and will only become aware once politicians start having to make severe choices for them. Such severe choices are only around the corner.

 

Believe me, after several dozen conversations and meetings with these very objectives and alignments in mind, IMO, it is at least still several years and £200M short a year in government income away yet. There are still far too many disparate opinions on this island IMO for a dominant party to come to the fore.

 

And political party's are confusing to many people here. All too many People get many of their ideas of political party's and current affairs from the UK press they purchase everyday. Talk to many people here and they will talk of immigration, benefit fraud and many other UK issues. They too often forget the UK is another country altogether in terms of their own daily lives.

 

How deep we get into the mire over the next 5 years increases the chances of alignment and a political party forming IMO. Party's take several years to build properly and gain support by getting out into the community, so the earliest I think we shall see any major dominant party, will be in around 2 years time, and only perhaps start to make a real difference by 2016.

 

And, Lib Vannin won't be it. Not with the guy currently running it.

[Lost Login]

I am presently much more concerned about the calibre of the people who currently are either MHKs or wannabe MHKS.

 

Raising the standards of those elected and applying is to me a much pressing need than having party politics as would haveing the current incumbents split into two or three political parties really improve the current house? Looking at the candidates who are standing for LVP if they were elected on mass and required to be Ministersin a gOvernment it would worry be greatly.

 

So as I said lets not worry yet about needing political parties and how to get there when in my view there is a much more pressing need for raising the standard and calibre of MHKs and MLCs. These guys are meant to lead and "run" the country yet how many would you be confident they would capable of running a substantial business or holding down a seior position in a large company.