Capt W E Johns Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 If Douglas promenade is to be redeveloped (remember the Naples of the north?) then I personally believe that it would be an admirable long term development in the Islands' economy if a light rail system of some kind could run from Ramsey to Port Erin via Douglas prom, perhaps involving a development of the Summerland site at the same time (& extend out to Peel). Computer controlled you could lose as many bus drivers as you like if you are that way inclined It would be an admirable use of our triple A status & significant reserves to invest in public works for economic development at this very difficult time I'd also like too see government support for Mark Graces' idea of a bond scheme for development of first time buyers homes http://www.isleofman.com/news/article.aspx?article=36988 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 If Douglas promenade is to be redeveloped (remember the Naples of the north?) then I personally believe that it would be an admirable long term development in the Islands' economy if a light rail system of some kind could run from Ramsey to Port Erin via Douglas prom, perhaps involving a development of the Summerland site at the same time (& extend out to Peel). Computer controlled you could lose as many bus drivers as you like if you are that way inclined It would be an admirable use of our triple A status & significant reserves to invest in public works for economic development at this very difficult time I'd also like too see government support for Mark Graces' idea of a bond scheme for development of first time buyers homes http://www.isleofman...x?article=36988 That all sounds a lot like a manifesto, or at the very least an agenda, especially given the last bit which has no place in this discussion. Merely stating that things are 'admirable' is no argument at all: what purpose is such development suppose to serve, how will it achieve it, and how does it avoid the criticisms that have been levelled thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt W E Johns Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Any development of Douglas Prom would undoubtedly turn into a complete pigs ear anyway, particularly if it was undertaken without any real purpose or ideal - I'm just proposing one Island wide fast, clean transport would use use surplus energy for our massive power station, take dangerous traffic off the roads [lets be honest, half our drivers are useless], give a major boost to retail in all major towns, as well as providing a development project when the Island really needs one Mr Robertshaw is the right person to progress such a project I hope for Gods' sake we get real real political leadership in the next House Lets have some of that hopey, changey stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'd also like too see government support for Mark Graces' idea of a bond scheme for development of first time buyers homes http://www.isleofman.com/news/article.aspx?article=36988 Yes an estate agent trying to use debt paid for by public money to make buying houses more likely, who'd have guessed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt W E Johns Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'd also like too see government support for Mark Graces' idea of a bond scheme for development of first time buyers homes http://www.isleofman...x?article=36988 Yes an estate agent trying to use debt paid for by public money to make buying houses more likely, who'd have guessed it! I was thinking more in terms of building houses for people who need them at this time; there is no bank finance available for house building right now Mr Grace is perfectly right to try & assert some leadership or at least new ideas to get a moribund economy back on its feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'd also like too see government support for Mark Graces' idea of a bond scheme for development of first time buyers homes http://www.isleofman...x?article=36988 Yes an estate agent trying to use debt paid for by public money to make buying houses more likely, who'd have guessed it! I was thinking more in terms of building houses for people who need them at this time; there is no bank finance available for house building right now Mr Grace is perfectly right to try & assert some leadership or at least new ideas to get a moribund economy back on its feet Mr Grace and his ilk are the precise problem with the housing Market on this Island. Houses would be affordable if the Market was left to fall without government intervention and developer manipulation. As a person he is an astute and likeable individual, but the way the housing Market here has been raped by agent and developer alike has caused nothing but harm to the long term stability of the Manx property Market. Without the manipulation of the Market first time buyers would be paying £100k for a new build house with the banks money, not £180k with money scrounged from the bank and the taxpayer. We cant afford to ignore reality and give people money to buy things at terms that commercial lenders are not prepared to underwrite. If a bank won't look at lending you money on a house - it's either not worth it or they don't think you earn enough to cover it. If that is the case why should government step in and assist you to afford something that you either can't afford or that the banks believe is overpriced relative to it's actual value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt W E Johns Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'd also like too see government support for Mark Graces' idea of a bond scheme for development of first time buyers homes http://www.isleofman...x?article=36988 Yes an estate agent trying to use debt paid for by public money to make buying houses more likely, who'd have guessed it! I was thinking more in terms of building houses for people who need them at this time; there is no bank finance available for house building right now Mr Grace is perfectly right to try & assert some leadership or at least new ideas to get a moribund economy back on its feet Mr Grace and his ilk are the precise problem with the housing Market on this Island. Houses would be affordable if the Market was left to fall without government intervention and developer manipulation. As a person he is an astute and likeable individual, but the way the housing Market here has been raped by agent and developer alike has caused nothing but harm to the long term stability of the Manx property Market. Without the manipulation of the Market first time buyers would be paying £100k for a new build house with the banks money, not £180k with money scrounged from the bank and the taxpayer. We cant afford to ignore reality and give people money to buy things at terms that commercial lenders are not prepared to underwrite. If a bank won't look at lending you money on a house - it's either not worth it or they don't think you earn enough to cover it. If that is the case why should government step in and assist you to afford something that you either can't afford or that the banks believe is overpriced relative to it's actual value. Er, so we could develop/build some affordable housing which the banks won't currently finance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 There is no traffic problem in Douglas - it's a few minutes of traffic in the morning, then a few minutes around 5pm, that's it... edit: Tugger beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Can I suggest that if people want to talk about housing, then use another thread, as this one is quickly becoming derailed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robertshaw Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 It was inevitable that when this subject was raised it would be a little like kicking a hornets nest and that has proved to be the case. There have been a number of strong statements here and assumptions jumped too so if I have not said it clearly enough then I will say it again. The promenade is being renvotated with the opportunity taken to reposition the tram track to one side. Given that that is the case then when the track is relaid and repositioned it would be ridiculous not to take the opportunity to link it to the MER track at the north end of the promenade during the routine course of works. Not to do so at this stage would be irresponsible and I stand by that absolutely. This widens the options available to us in the future and that is as it should be. I touched on what 'might be' and the current difficulties we face simply in order to suggest why this 'future proofing' should be done. Is there anyone here seriously suggesting that this simple link should not be made in the process of relaying the tram track on the promenade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt W E Johns Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 There is no traffic problem in Douglas - it's a few minutes of traffic in the morning, then a few minutes around 5pm, that's it... Yep, it's the driving out of town we need to be protected from - only today I read that somebody had driven into a marked police car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt W E Johns Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 It was inevitable that when this subject was raised it would be a little like kicking a hornets nest and that has proved to be the case. There have been a number of strong statements here and assumptions jumped too so if I have not said it clearly enough then I will say it again. The promenade is being renvotated with the opportunity taken to reposition the tram track to one side. Given that that is the case then when the track is relaid and repositioned it would be ridiculous not to take the opportunity to link it to the tram track at the north end of the promenade during the routine course of works. Not to do so at this stage would be irresponsible and I stand by that absolutely. This widens the options available to us in the future and that is as it should be. I touched on what might be and the current difficulties we face simply in order to suggest why this 'future proofing' should be done. Is there anyone here seriously suggesting that this simple link should not be made in the process of relaying the tram track on the promenade? Not me brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hboy Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'd also like too see government support for Mark Graces' idea of a bond scheme for development of first time buyers homes http://www.isleofman...x?article=36988 Yes an estate agent trying to use debt paid for by public money to make buying houses more likely, who'd have guessed it! I was thinking more in terms of building houses for people who need them at this time; there is no bank finance available for house building right now Mr Grace is perfectly right to try & assert some leadership or at least new ideas to get a moribund economy back on its feet Mr Grace and his ilk are the precise problem with the housing Market on this Island. Houses would be affordable if the Market was left to fall without government intervention and developer manipulation. As a person he is an astute and likeable individual, but the way the housing Market here has been raped by agent and developer alike has caused nothing but harm to the long term stability of the Manx property Market. Without the manipulation of the Market first time buyers would be paying £100k for a new build house with the banks money, not £180k with money scrounged from the bank and the taxpayer. We cant afford to ignore reality and give people money to buy things at terms that commercial lenders are not prepared to underwrite. If a bank won't look at lending you money on a house - it's either not worth it or they don't think you earn enough to cover it. If that is the case why should government step in and assist you to afford something that you either can't afford or that the banks believe is overpriced relative to it's actual value. Er, so we could develop/build some affordable housing which the banks won't currently finance Er, if the banks are not prepared to fund a purchase why the hell should we be? That is my whole point. If a bank can't see money in a particular scenario why should IOMG fund it just to put commission in an estate agents pocket? Banks exist to look for return on capital and profit. If housing was affordable people would buy it. As they are not buying it what is wrong? Oh yes, it's too expensive but we should use taxpayers money to make it affordable even though it isnt as that generates commission for estate agents and profits for developers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 Island wide fast, clean transport would use use surplus energy for our massive power station, take dangerous traffic off the roads [lets be honest, half our drivers are useless], give a major boost to retail in all major towns, as well as providing a development project when the Island really needs one That doesn't really answer the points raised so far though, does it? How much dangerous traffic it would actually take from the roads, and hence whether it would be worth it is precisely what's being called into question here. As for the rest, those aren't really points: 'give a major boost to retail in all major towns' is simply conjecture until you back it up with something more substantial (and it's dependent entirely upon what the likely uptake is), and 'providing a development project when the Island really needs one' is facile construction industry lobbying. Does the Island really need one, or do the building firms? The two are not one and the same and that question is part of a much bigger issue: that being the government's continued subsidy to the contruction firms and developers and whether we should really be perpetuating it rather than weaning them off public money which we can barely afford to spend keeping them afloat on the Island. Mr Robertshaw is the right person to progress such a project I hope for Gods' sake we get real real political leadership in the next House Chris makes the right noises and is a decent backbencher, but, and I honestly don't mean offence here, he's significantly weaker when it comes to proposing things himself and ideas. If his record on here is anything to go by, my personal impression is that he simply doesn't think things through or to nearly enough depth. He's got a knack with bold statements and appealing slogans, but his arguments are usually quite poor and he sometimes seems to have difficulty following other people's arguments, which to me doesn't speak highly about his ability to reason or how serious a player he is. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he got in given the competition in Douglas East, and I think he should probably stay, but to me he's very much a politician first and a political thinker second and is much better situated on the backbenches than he would be in a top role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt W E Johns Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 I'd also like too see government support for Mark Graces' idea of a bond scheme for development of first time buyers homes http://www.isleofman...x?article=36988 Yes an estate agent trying to use debt paid for by public money to make buying houses more likely, who'd have guessed it! I was thinking more in terms of building houses for people who need them at this time; there is no bank finance available for house building right now Mr Grace is perfectly right to try & assert some leadership or at least new ideas to get a moribund economy back on its feet I think it is possible that Mr Grace could afford not to collect a few commissions on some low cost housing; I think the government would make the sale & has an ingenious method of making a profit on it's investment in the long term Mr Grace and his ilk are the precise problem with the housing Market on this Island. Houses would be affordable if the Market was left to fall without government intervention and developer manipulation. As a person he is an astute and likeable individual, but the way the housing Market here has been raped by agent and developer alike has caused nothing but harm to the long term stability of the Manx property Market. Without the manipulation of the Market first time buyers would be paying £100k for a new build house with the banks money, not £180k with money scrounged from the bank and the taxpayer. We cant afford to ignore reality and give people money to buy things at terms that commercial lenders are not prepared to underwrite. If a bank won't look at lending you money on a house - it's either not worth it or they don't think you earn enough to cover it. If that is the case why should government step in and assist you to afford something that you either can't afford or that the banks believe is overpriced relative to it's actual value. Er, so we could develop/build some affordable housing which the banks won't currently finance Er, if the banks are not prepared to fund a purchase why the hell should we be? That is my whole point. If a bank can't see money in a particular scenario why should IOMG fund it just to put commission in an estate agents pocket? Banks exist to look for return on capital and profit. If housing was affordable people would buy it. As they are not buying it what is wrong? Oh yes, it's too expensive but we should use taxpayers money to make it affordable even though it isnt as that generates commission for estate agents and profits for developers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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