Missing Mann Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Does anyone really think this is viable?, whats the cost of installing electric cable and unsightly poles from Summerland to the Sea terminal?, the cost of running more public transport at substantial losses?, the maintenance over the years? As suggested earlier something like this on the prom would be better : Carries 72 people (more than a horse tram), costs less too. I take it you're just trolling? Why on earth would anyone be interested in travelling in a Britt Alcroft/Disney wet dream along the Promenade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinnieK Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I'm surprised at some of the reaction to Chris's proposal, for it was that same hard headed realism and 'common sense' that dismantled and vandalised the Island's Victorian heritage With respect, I don't think that's the case at all. Arguing against expanding the range of the MER along to the prom is not even nearly the same as arguing for the dismantling of the Island's Victorian heritage*. This is not least because if you listen to the report, it sounds like the ultimate aim of this scheme is to get modern rolling stock on the tracks. It should also be said that, as practically minded people the Victorians probably would have been as sceptical of this plan as we all have been! Douglas used to be a beautiful town and if someone can come up with workable and affordable proposals to help get it off its knees then I for one am going to listen. Isn't the problem not that we haven't been listening on here, but that Chris hasn't actually been saying anything? I'd also ask how pylons along the promenade or the occasional appearance of a Victorian carriage reall helps improve the beauty of Douglas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Does anyone really think this is viable?, whats the cost of installing electric cable and unsightly poles from Summerland to the Sea terminal?, the cost of running more public transport at substantial losses?, the maintenance over the years? As suggested earlier something like this on the prom would be better : Carries 72 people (more than a horse tram), costs less too. I take it you're just trolling? Why on earth would anyone be interested in travelling in a Britt Alcroft/Disney wet dream along the Promenade? Presumably it would be Thomas the tank engine or something similar, which immediately answers the question of who would be interested. And IOM Transport finally get a bendy bus to play with. It's a win-win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 There has been an over reaction on the part of some on here to the simple and reasonable concept of making a connection at what must be a relatively small cost when the opportunity to do so exists - rather than not to do so. It is a sensible precautionary measure to keep options open - nothing more and nothing less. To suggest that a full business plan, impact study, costing and in depth analysis has to be done on the future option or options it would protect at this stage is,quite honestly, ridiculous. My thoughts exactly. Ridiculous to make a full business plan & impact study for something that is self evidently common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonatti Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think what Chris Robertshaw is proposing is that the MER line and Horse tram line are joined together outside the Terminous tavern which would be of very little extra cost IF the tram lines are to stay in place during the prom re-developement. What is unclear is,can the horse tram lines remain in place during the re-delopement or will they have to be lifted up/replaced to allow the work to go ahead. If the latter is the case,I would imagine the overall costs would be massively reduced if the horse tram lines were removed altogether. I really cant see the point of the MER continuing all the way down the prom. Who would it target? Commuters from Ramsey and Laxey are not going to use it as the buses are cheaper,quiker and more compfortable. Even if they did use it,the numbers are never going to cover the costs. I cant imagine it will bring any more tourists to the island than those that already come to see the MER/steam railway. Has there ever been a survey to determine how many tourists come to the island purely to see the MER/steam railway , and are there any that come just to see the horse trams. I doubt they'll be missed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I take it you're just trolling? Why on earth would anyone be interested in travelling in a Britt Alcroft/Disney wet dream along the Promenade? The same people who are interested in the trams, people who want to see the scenery, I'd much rather travel on one of these than on a tram! Have you see how popular they are in other Uk seaside resorts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshimajin Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 How about doing nothing at all to the Promenade until we have sorted out our finances and got some money together that we actually know can be afforded? That way a proper look at the options could be had and we might end up with something of enduring value? In the meantime the "quality" of the road may in itself help reduce congestion - whatever that means in Douglas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt W E Johns Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 How about doing nothing at all to the Promenade until we have sorted out our finances and got some money together that we actually know can be afforded? That way a proper look at the options could be had and we might end up with something of enduring value? In the meantime the "quality" of the road may in itself help reduce congestion - whatever that means in Douglas. Point well made as ever. I do however like to see candidates give some suggestion/idea of more practical strategies and aspirations before an election Must say that new LV candidate for Ramsey was jolly sensible on TH today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 So the MHK mentions joining the tracks and everyone starts getting worried about pylons along the prom. I'm more concerned about the poor horses having to pull those old coaches to Ramsey (and up Snaefell?) Is no-one going to consider the horses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 MSJ, I quite agree with you, put the whole scheme on hold until we have a better understanding of our finances. It could be that there will be a better use of Capital Spending that will boost the economy, provide work and give us a return on capital. Another consideration should be to do away with the Tram Lines, run the Horse Trams on rubber tyres thus saving the cost of relaying the rails and wondering where to put the rail lines. The engineering to put the Trams on rubber and provide a steerable front axle should not be difficult, unless the DoT have got rid of all the engineers and blacksmiths. A consideration would have to be that the tyres are wide enough to spread the weight of the Tram so as not to damage the road surface. However, something that I do not know anything about is the welfare of the Horses in such a system. So, unlike some who dive in headlong, I will ask of anyone on here who is familiar with the mechanics of Horse drawn vehicles.... Would it be harder for a Horse to pull a Tram on rubber shod wheels on the undulating Prom??? Should a Horse always be travelling in the same direction as the traffic on its side of the road, that is, would it be frightening for a Horse to head into oncoming traffic? Do the Horses require a special road surface for grip or comfort? Would the effort of turning the Tram be too much or dangerous for the Horse? This would alloww the retention of the Horse Trams until they become too much of a loss maker. Save the cost of re laying the tracks. Allow some deviation of the up and down the Prom route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 You could always pop down to Strathallan and get it straight from the horses mouth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missing Mann Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I take it you're just trolling? Why on earth would anyone be interested in travelling in a Britt Alcroft/Disney wet dream along the Promenade? The same people who are interested in the trams, people who want to see the scenery, I'd much rather travel on one of these than on a tram! Have you see how popular they are in other Uk seaside resorts? Ah okay, your are trolling. You are seriously suggesting that the 'road train' would be more popular than the horse trams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missing Mann Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 MSJ, I quite agree with you, put the whole scheme on hold until we have a better understanding of our finances. It could be that there will be a better use of Capital Spending that will boost the economy, provide work and give us a return on capital. Another consideration should be to do away with the Tram Lines, run the Horse Trams on rubber tyres thus saving the cost of relaying the rails and wondering where to put the rail lines. The engineering to put the Trams on rubber and provide a steerable front axle should not be difficult, unless the DoT have got rid of all the engineers and blacksmiths. A consideration would have to be that the tyres are wide enough to spread the weight of the Tram so as not to damage the road surface. However, something that I do not know anything about is the welfare of the Horses in such a system. So, unlike some who dive in headlong, I will ask of anyone on here who is familiar with the mechanics of Horse drawn vehicles.... Would it be harder for a Horse to pull a Tram on rubber shod wheels on the undulating Prom??? Should a Horse always be travelling in the same direction as the traffic on its side of the road, that is, would it be frightening for a Horse to head into oncoming traffic? Do the Horses require a special road surface for grip or comfort? Would the effort of turning the Tram be too much or dangerous for the Horse? This would alloww the retention of the Horse Trams until they become too much of a loss maker. Save the cost of re laying the tracks. Allow some deviation of the up and down the Prom route. Surely you aren't for real? Friction!!! as in the lack of between steel wheels on steel rails means that to pull a tram on rails is far easier than to pull a tram on rubber tyres along the road. If you lean against a thirty ton railway carriage on the flat one or two people can get it to move - ask one or two people to push a thirty ton vehicle on the road...A schoolboy would know that. I really can't believe the crap I'm reading on here, cruelty to horses, disrupting park, disrupting motorists, and let's have Disney trains - the sort of nonsense I'd expect in Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Ah okay, your are trolling. You are seriously suggesting that the 'road train' would be more popular than the horse trams... Well i'm going to rise to the bait, I think you need to read the definition of 'troll' or 'trolling', just because someone has a different opinion to yours does not make them a troll. If it makes any difference to you I don't mean having a car train on the roads or current tracks, but along the actual walkway part of the promenade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxy Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Ah okay, your are trolling. You are seriously suggesting that the 'road train' would be more popular than the horse trams... Well i'm going to rise to the bait, I think you need to read the definition of 'troll' or 'trolling', just because someone has a different opinion to yours does not make them a troll. If it makes any difference to you I don't mean having a car train on the roads or current tracks, but along the actual walkway part of the promenade. I actually like the idea of Thomas the Tank engine along the prom as a stop gap until things are organised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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