So the UK is finished says Theresa Mayhem

[AndyF]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

The danger is that Farage splits the Brexit vote and lets libs in. LibLab coalition. What a dog's dinner! 

I don't think that would be good news. Left and a bit further left 'mix' , although I did not appreciate the last coalition what with it being a mix of right and far left, both sides at least  (in some cases, not all sadly :( ) stopped the other from being too silly.

[woolley]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

But that depends on the U.K. PM asking for an extension first. It’s the next step in the process. A process that can only be initiated by the U.K. w2 as usual taking something out of context and presenting it as the exact opposite of reality.

Not at all. The UK could ask for a specific date and the EU responds with a date of its own choosing. This poorly drafted document hands the entire initiative to Brussels. W2 is correct. 

[the stinking enigma]

Out of interest, who set all the other dates that we kept missing?

[AndyF]

6 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

Out of interest, who set all the other dates that we kept missing?

I think the EU ultimately chose them, if you mean the 'deadline dates' , with some input from what was then the negotiating team as to if they were acceptable or not. I don't think said team went with a 'we must have date x' demand despite what might of been said. Could be wrong though.

Edited September 3, 2019 by AndyF
An excess of typo's :(

[John Wright]

45 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

Out of interest, who set all the other dates that we kept missing?

We did, we set the first date, 29 March, all on our own by giving two years notice. Since then we have twice asked for an extension. They have been offered. We decided whether or not to accept. They weren’t imposed by the EU.

Its like your sovereignty argument. We never lost it to get it back. We pooled some, as did the other member states. We always had ultimate sovereignty because we could leave, and may do so.

But then we will have to pool our sovereignty differently with FTA, other commercial agreements and treaties and even the WTO.

The clause highlighted by w2 and the one above it cover two different situations. The first where we ask to extend to a specific date, EU agrees and we have to accept immediately. The second where we ask for a specific date, EU offers an alternative, and we get 48 hours to decide.

So, we asked for 12/4 and EU agreed. We accepted.

31 October we asked for something different, got offered 31/10, and agreed. We can go earlier!

The EU can’t impose any date. There’s always the option of just leaving. Or, worse, from their point of view, revoking Art 50 and staying and then starting the whole circus again.

[Barrie Stevens]

13 minutes ago, woolley said:

Not at all. The UK could ask for a specific date and the EU responds with a date of its own choosing. This poorly drafted document hands the entire initiative to Brussels. W2 is correct. 

I had a few words in person yesterday with Tim Martin founder of the Wetherspoons chain of pubs.

He is a keen Brexiteer as you know and distributes pro Brexit material in those pubs.

I was in the Ivory Peg having a minor celebration that my Baltic Exchange memoirs have been accepted by the London Metropolitan Archives and Bishopsgate Institute.

I would like to have said we had a profound discussion on Brexit. We exchanged pleasantries and I asked him to fix the lock on the disabled toilet to which he made a note in his notebook. I would rather have had the money mind you...

He does these surprise visits and the staff had no idea he was coming to see the place. I was surprised when he came over to me. But he does these visits to see the staff and punters.  Certainly a very big man in trainers, shorts and rugby shirt. One or two people had long talks with him. 

Me being cynical I asked the manager if the Peg would be one of those listed to close...

The Peg is usually full of pensioners during the day getting their two for the price of one meals...

Now go and discuss the latest W2 input

[Barrie Stevens]

14 minutes ago, John Wright said:

We did, we set the first date all on our own by giving two years notice. Since then we have asked for an extension. They have been offered. We decided whether or not to accept. They weren’t imposed by the EU.

Its like your sovereignty argument. We never lost it to get it back. We pooled some, as did the other member states. We always had ultimate sovereignty because we could leave, and may do so.

But then we will have to pool our sovereignty differently with FTA, other commercial agreements and treaties and even the WTO.

Cynical old me has long thought that whatever happens the UK will be overshadowed by the EU and by virtue of its magnetic presence end up following much the same rules and regs as of now and will have to adapt. I liken the future to that of the IOM and the UK or Canada and Mexico to the USA. It's like the old one about where does a twenty stone hamster sleep..Anywhere it likes...

[Barrie Stevens]

27 minutes ago, AndyF said:

I think the EU ultimately chose them, if you mean the 'deadline dates' , with some input from what was then the negotiating team as to if they were acceptable or not. I don't think said team went with a 'we must have date x' demand despite what might of been said. Could be wrong though.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/03/no-deal-brexit-crashing-out-uk-europe

This is worth reading...

[John Wright]

I see BoJo has lost his majority as MP Phillip Lee has resigned from the Conservative party, crossed the floor of the house, and joined the LibDems. The Cons and DUP confidence and supply arrangement is now in a minority.

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

Not at all. The UK could ask for a specific date and the EU responds with a date of its own choosing. This poorly drafted document hands the entire initiative to Brussels. W2 is correct. 

The initiative is with the U.K. the agreement is well drafted. Not the fault of the EU that the U.K. has played its hand so badly.

The evidence:-

we set 29/3 on our own. EU had no say.

we asked for 12/4 and EU agreed, no deal or 22/5 If the leave agreement was passed.

we asked for another extension, on 10/4, can’t remember what date but think it was end June, and got counter offered 31/10, which we accepted, but we could have left on 12/4, or any date since.

[Barrie Stevens]

Looks like we are staying in the EU then one way or another just dressed up differently and with Corbyn as PM I would not be at all surprised at that...Boris could make a killing writing his book about being UKs shortest serving PM.... Mind you I think Corbyn would not serve a long term...

[Barrie Stevens]

6 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said:

Looks like we are staying in the EU then one way or another just dressed up differently and with Corbyn as PM I would not be at all surprised at that...Boris could make a killing writing his book about being UKs shortest serving PM.... Mind you I think Corbyn would not serve a long term...

BoJo's term as PM is starting to resemble Camelot. Over in a flash impossible promises and false statements

 

[woody2]

3 hours ago, John Wright said:

But that depends on the U.K. PM asking for an extension first. It’s the next step in the process. A process that can only be initiated by the U.K. w2 as usual taking something out of context and presenting it as the exact opposite of reality.

which is what the bill is forcing him to do......

[Barrie Stevens]

Gehttps://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp00728/george-canning

George Canning was the shortest serving PM apparently...4 months..

[woody2]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

We did, we set the first date, 29 March, all on our own by giving two years notice. Since then we have twice asked for an extension. They have been offered. We decided whether or not to accept. They weren’t imposed by the EU.

Its like your sovereignty argument. We never lost it to get it back. We pooled some, as did the other member states. We always had ultimate sovereignty because we could leave, and may do so.

But then we will have to pool our sovereignty differently with FTA, other commercial agreements and treaties and even the WTO.

The clause highlighted by w2 and the one above it cover two different situations. The first where we ask to extend to a specific date, EU agrees and we have to accept immediately. The second where we ask for a specific date, EU offers an alternative, and we get 48 hours to decide.

So, we asked for 12/4 and EU agreed. We accepted.

31 October we asked for something different, got offered 31/10, and agreed. We can go earlier!

The EU can’t impose any date. There’s always the option of just leaving. Or, worse, from their point of view, revoking Art 50 and staying and then starting the whole circus again.

but that's not going to happen because that would be no deal........