"Wake up and smell the coffee!"

[woolley]

Commercial rents are expensive although they have been forced down to some extent by business failures, or tenants simply walking after engineering the bankruptcy of their own companies to escape unrealistic expectations by landlords on long leases. I know for a fact that some prominent properties are now yielding rent between a half and three quarters of what they were bringing in around 2000 - and it's still high for what business you can do.

There is a lot of rent going off the Island and this does impact the disposable income here. At the same time Island companies own properties elsewhere bringing in huge amounts of rent although what proportion of those actually belong to on-Island interests is anyone's guess. There is UK legislation going through at the moment aimed at unmasking the beneficial ownership of these companies owning UK property to ease law enforcement/money laundering investigations. I wouldn't hold my breath for any kind of detailed analysis of what is going where for the usual reason. It isn't in the interests of the powerful and well connected.

It would seem that the only game in town is to keep the lid on it all for as long as possible. In the long run it will be somebody else's problem.

[Max Power]

42 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

With respect to retail, I'd be interested to know what the effect (if any) of factors other than population is.  For instance, how much more viable would businesses be were commercial rents lower. 

I ask about rents in particular because I was surprised to find the ground floor of the old Isle of Man Bank building on Prospect Terrace going for £20,000 p/a and the news agents on Michael Street in Peel going for £10,400 p/a, for a comparison I found two similar commercial lets in the middle of Brighton going for between £10,000 and £16,000 and a couple in the centre of Norwich in the £15,000 to £20,000 range.  It's not a scientific survey at all, I know, but it made me wonder:

• if costs, like commercial rents, on the Island are relatively high (given the population size and logistical costs of operating on the Island);
• how much this contributes to businesses struggling (in the case of retail, both by eating into profits and hitting demand by pushing up prices);
• what can be done to alleviate this.

Similarly, how much of an effect do housing costs, rental and sale, have on retail through the pressure they put on consumers' disposable income, as well as having a further effect on salaries and/or recruitment?  Also, thinking of the wider economy, how much commercial property is owned outside of the Island---that is to say, how much of the income generated by local businesses ends up leaving the Island for good in the form of rents?

Assuming one hasn't already been made, what might be needed is a comprehensive study of the Island's economy covering its different aspects (like rents, property prices, etc., and things like, as you mention staff recruitment) and how they interact with one another, with a view to determining what we can reasonably expect from the economy as is and what can be done to help out both the populace and business (I fear that there sometimes seems to be too much emphasis on the latter, under the assumption that's what's good for business is automatically good for the populace). 

Perhaps such an exercise could even prompt and help us to decide on what kind of Island we actually want.  It's seems to me, perhaps unfairly, that ever since the first VAT renegotiation, there's been only a piecemeal strategy of keeping things ticking over with as little threat to the status quo as possible---build a little less here, increase charges there, ease up on this regulation, boost population or dip in reserves to fill that shortfall.  Such a strategy is fine when part of a managed transition to a different status quo, or when riding out a temporary slump, but it only works for so long if there's no definite end-situation in mind.

I would really like a clean sheet of paper study as you suggest, it would focus the minds of government to deal with the residual 'big issues'.

You are right, property costs are a big hindrance to business from both sides of the counter. In comparison to the UK in most areas, we are paying far too much in a highly restricted market. It forces up salaries and servicing costs to the point that businesses operate with minimum staffing levels, further handicapping turnover.

Thanks, you've put a different spin on things for me. 

[woolley]

I think we need to do the Size and Scope of Government Study again. But this time actually do it. It's the elephant in the room.

[Non-Believer]

I'd suggest that there's not one person in the current administration who would even be capable of seeing and/or implementing anything relating to VinnieK's post.

They're inextricably welded to the VAT funded dogmas and mantras of the last 20 years with the current outlook of "just keep it all ticking over like it has been, something will come along and save it".

Look at the 5 years wasted by Bell and Teare. Just prop it up with the reserves and lie and bullshit the way through. Plenty on these boards, in private business I'd say, which has to be flexible and fleet of foot to survive,  predicted this, as long ago as 2009/10. They were right.

Whilst we continue to vote for granny farmers and those who have specialised in making a living on the public teat and their ilk - we are fooked.

[woody2]

how come council house exchanges with the mainland is still going on? isn't time to put a stop to this.....

[dilligaf]

12 hours ago, woody2 said:

how come council house exchanges with the mainland is still going on? isn't time to put a stop to this.....

This is the mainland. Can you not grasp that concept. So many short planks still.

[woolley]

Since the VAT "renegotiation" it's the ONLY land when it come to finding the money to pay off the liabilities. That means us.

[woody2]

11 hours ago, dilligaf said:

This is the mainland. Can you not grasp that concept. So many short planks still.

nope, so you don't know the answer? it does deprive locals of housing.....

[Roger Mexico]

On 03/05/2017 at 9:09 AM, woody2 said:

how come council house exchanges with the mainland is still going on? isn't time to put a stop to this.....

Is this actually true?  I did a bit of searching last night and couldn't find any evidence.

[RIchard Britten]

1 minute ago, Roger Mexico said:

Is this actually true?  I did a bit of searching last night and couldn't find any evidence.

Asking woody2 for evidence or reference?  This should be good.

[woody2]

35 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Is this actually true?  I did a bit of searching last night and couldn't find any evidence.

group on faceache....

[woolley]

43 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Is this actually true?  I did a bit of searching last night and couldn't find any evidence.

Couldn't say categorically but I've never heard of one happening.

[TheTeapot]

It isn't true, he's making it up.

[notwell]

Yep .  And with a load of .......... after it as usual. 

[Max Power]

Fake news hits Manxforums shock!