Police vs Castletown Festival

[Expatriate]

20   Act not to apply to certain premises:

'This Act shall not apply to any licensed premises or club premises, or to any place kept or used for any entertainment purpose or entertainment purposes for philanthropic, charitable or religious purposes, or obtaining funds for the same'.

This from the Licensing Act. Seems the organisers didn't need a Music and Dancing License after all and as they said. Cops couldn't arsed I reckon but they are supposed to be enforcing the law and not making it up as they go along.

[paswt]

30 minutes ago, dilligaf said:

Would it not be in everyone's interests for the Government to oversee the event and cover any potential major loss / claim/ litigation etc. ? Jurby is a Government owned property anyway, so surely it must help you in the long run, rather than hinder.

Now you rally are joking or trolling .

As "TF" said "the volunteers would desert it droves " and given that my perception of those in charge of the TT / MGP would seem to have IMO nothing in common with the motorcycle community I'd be inclined to give the event a swerve and not entrust any of my vintage motorcycle collection  to their care...... thanks.

Just saying 

 

[paswt]

10 minutes ago, Expatriate said:

20   Act not to apply to certain premises:

'This Act shall not apply to any licensed premises or club premises, or to any place kept or used for any entertainment purpose or entertainment purposes for philanthropic, charitable or religious purposes, or obtaining funds for the same'.

This from the Licensing Act. Seems the organisers didn't need a Music and Dancing License after all and as they said. Cops couldn't arsed I reckon but they are supposed to be enforcing the law and not making it up as they go along.

So it sounds like a case of section bluff and if so whoever instructed the organisers was on a "frolic of their own".

[the stinking enigma]

The overrun with financial crime thing, the not being able to answer the phone thing and the not having the manpower to staff the castletown carnival thing all added together screams of a cry for help from the police to me. So in fitting with police SOP's in cases of cries for help we should taser them forthwith then rub their faces in the deck as we apply their handcuffs a little too tightly. At the first signs of struggle then charge them with resisting assistance. It's the humane way

[TheTeapot]

20 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Still waiting to find out what the "scurrilous nonsense" is...

 

[censorship]

Whether the police were right or wrong in their application of the law, the way this has been handled is a communications disaster for the force. It gets worse when the chief constable claims its all scurrilous nonsense and a statement will tell the truth, because trying to defend a balls up makes you look stupid. It gets even worse than that when they can't cobble a statement together some four days after the announcement went out, and 24 hours of the chief constable himself said there would be a statement.

This may be down to one individual making a bad call, but that's okay because they are never held to account (see comments on action against officers in whose care a man died). Personally I think its down to the management of the force.

They have exposed what utter twats they are, and are going to seek to justify that twattish behaviour in this statement. If it ever happens.

[cheesypeas]

16 minutes ago, censorship said:

Whether the police were right or wrong in their application of the law, the way this has been handled is a communications disaster for the force. It gets worse when the chief constable claims its all scurrilous nonsense and a statement will tell the truth, because trying to defend a balls up makes you look stupid. It gets even worse than that when they can't cobble a statement together some four days after the announcement went out, and 24 hours of the chief constable himself said there would be a statement.

This may be down to one individual making a bad call, but that's okay because they are never held to account (see comments on action against officers in whose care a man died). Personally I think its down to the management of the force.

They have exposed what utter twats they are, and are going to seek to justify that twattish behaviour in this statement. If it ever happens.

Of course you're not biased though ? 

[censorship]

1 minute ago, cheesypeas said:

Of course you're not biased though ? 

Yes I am, have you not been paying attention? For several months I've highlighted that in my opinion the constabulary is failing in its duty to the public, due to a mix of poor management, poor quality staff, lack of training and prioritising of self-interest. We've seen so many examples of this, of which the handling of Castletown is just the latest.

Unfortunately, the constabulary can do what it likes because it has strangely strong connections with supposedly independent organisations, like the Island media and the attorney general's chambers. Many places would be deeply concerned when the police force seem able to dictate editorial policy, social care policy, prosecution policy, etc, etc, but it appears to be entirely acceptable in the Isle of Man.

 

[cheesypeas]

Just now, censorship said:

Yes I am, have you not been paying attention? For several months I've highlighted that in my opinion the constabulary is failing in its duty to the public, due to a mix of poor management, poor quality staff, lack of training and prioritising of self-interest. We've seen so many examples of this, of which the handling of Castletown is just the latest.

Unfortunately, the constabulary can do what it likes because it has strangely strong connections with supposedly independent organisations, like the Island media and the attorney general's chambers. Many places would be deeply concerned when the police force seem able to dictate editorial policy, social care policy, prosecution policy, etc, etc, but it appears to be entirely acceptable in the Isle of Man.

 

Several months !!! That's more than a tad conservative. Don't spend much time in here, but you stand out as a bit of an obsessive if you don't mind me saying so. Where exactly does your obvious hate of the Police derive from? I'm genuinely interested.

[censorship]

18 minutes ago, cheesypeas said:

Several months !!! That's more than a tad conservative. Don't spend much time in here, but you stand out as a bit of an obsessive if you don't mind me saying so. Where exactly does your obvious hate of the Police derive from? I'm genuinely interested.

It comes from a deep-rooted hatred of waste and privilege, and isn't restricted to the police.

There are so many arms of government which are costing us huge amounts of money and simply failing to deliver. Common to them all are staff strutting around like they are special, people pursuing avenues of self-interest, for promotion or job retention, to the disservice of their actual role, institutionalised arse-covering, a belief they have so much power they answer to no one, poor quality people working towards a huge pensions and not service delivery, piss poor management and a culture of "that'll do".

Among the most public of these, and potentially the most important, are the police, social services, health services and the attorney general's chambers, which is why I have repeatedly criticised them. But it doesn't stop there, as anyone who has dealt with infrastructure or economic development will well know (or education for that matter).

I don't think it is unreasonable, on a public debate forum, to raise concerns about a public service, and to repeat them when the situation continues, or worsens. 

[notwell]

I think on the whole the police do ok. It's a tough job at the best of times. 

I would concede though that your point about the drug fella who died in police custody should be followed up by the police to explain what they are doing about it. 

Derek said several months ago it wasn't possible at the moment but there has to come a time and surely enough time has passed to digest the report etc

 

[cheesypeas]

25 minutes ago, censorship said:

It comes from a deep-rooted hatred of waste and privilege, and isn't restricted to the police.

There are so many arms of government which are costing us huge amounts of money and simply failing to deliver. Common to them all are staff strutting around like they are special, people pursuing avenues of self-interest, for promotion or job retention, to the disservice of their actual role, institutionalised arse-covering, a belief they have so much power they answer to no one, poor quality people working towards a huge pensions and not service delivery, piss poor management and a culture of "that'll do".

Among the most public of these, and potentially the most important, are the police, social services, health services and the attorney general's chambers, which is why I have repeatedly criticised them. But it doesn't stop there, as anyone who has dealt with infrastructure or economic development will well know (or education for that matter).

I don't think it is unreasonable, on a public debate forum, to raise concerns about a public service, and to repeat them when the situation continues, or worsens. 

Well that answers my question thank you. Suppose the mantra ' change what you can and accept what you can't' doesn't stack up with yourself. Hope all that hate doesn't eat you up, genuinely do.

[2112]

It would be very interesting to see the Southern Agricultural Show had all the relevant licenses, especially Music and Dancing? Afterall the Castletown Band were performing there over the two days of the show. I believe that the police were on duty at the show, helping to park cars - a good use of resources. From what I hear, the police charge £50 per hour, per officer for officiating at shows etc. At the same Southern Agricultural Show, our esteemed dear leader Rupert Quayle was judging the animals. Incidentally he has remained very tight lipped regarding the Castletown Square Fiasco, unlike his predecessor Alan Bell, who liked to the Cabinet Office press team in gainful employment.

On another matter, I believe that the police were in attendance at the Peel Carnival on Sunday. By all accounts they were parked up on the Headland, in a CCTV van with the camera fully erect. From what I hear, they drove down the road with the camera erect, and pulled down power lines! Sounds like Comedy Gold or Keystone Cops.

[manxb&b]

For those of you not on FB the IOM constabulary has just released this statement.. it's quite lengthy...

Castletown Festival

The Isle of Man Constabulary notes with disappointment the decision of the organising committee of the Castletown Festival to rearrange its programme of events, so that no music was played after 6pm on the day of the event, Saturday 5th August 2017. The Constabulary also notes the contents of a media release issued by the committee on Friday 4th August. The decision taken by the committee was entirely avoidable and the Constabulary firmly believes that an alternative approach could easily have been taken that would have allowed the evening entertainment to go ahead.

The Constabulary has no desire at all to interfere with properly organised community events and it is proud to play a part in dozens of such events that take place across the Island each year. The key to the success of these events is in proper, meaningful cooperation between the organisers and the police. The Constabulary’s sole concern is public safety.

The Constabulary has repeatedly raised concerns about the running of the Castletown Festival for more than a decade. This does not relate at all to the daytime events, which are pleasant, successful family affairs. The concerns focus instead on what happens in the evening, when the musical element of the programme attracts a mix of families, people interested only in drinking and teenagers who travel to the event from across the Island, many of whom become intoxicated, sometimes dangerously so.
The abuse of alcohol is the main problem and all event organisers have a responsibility to run safe events.

In the Isle of Man event organisers are asked to comply with the Event Safety Guide (also known as the Purple Guide), irrespective of whether they are a commercial organisation or a body that sees its purpose as being philanthropic. It is on some aspects of this point that the Constabulary and the festival committee have divergent views.

In recent years, problems experienced during the evening part of Castletown Festival have led to the police making arrests for offences of assault, drunkenness, criminal damage, and for breaches of the Public Order Act. Some of the offences have been serious, including on one occasion an on duty Constable suffering grievous bodily harm as a result of an attack.

Of most concern to the Constabulary has been the growth in the abuse of alcohol by teenagers at the Festival. These young people put themselves and others in danger and some have required hospital treatment as a result of their excessive drinking. Their behaviour causes a public nuisance and requires special attention from the police and from youth workers especially deployed to the event.
The festival committee has been reluctant to accept its responsibilities as an event organiser, placing the onus for managing behaviour at the event on the police. This is not how events should be run. The police are there to support event organisers, not to do their job for them. As a result of the anti-social behaviour experienced in recent years, Castletown Festival has become the most heavily policed event outside the TT, which in turn has implications on the resources available to police the rest of the Island.

While the Constabulary and Castletown festival organisers have achieved some progress it has not been enough to allay the serious concerns over public safety. The Constabulary has long been disappointed that the festival committee do not accept that crime, disorder and drunkenness often accompany the event in Castletown, or that the organisers have a part to play in preventing and reducing such problems. This is the crux of the issue. There are risks in running an event, but those risks can be mitigated with careful planning and co-operation with various public service agencies.

There is a clause in the Music and Dancing Act that allows events run for a philanthropic purpose to avoid being licensed. However, earlier this summer the Constabulary received new legal advice from the HM Attorney General’s Chambers, which clearly indicated that the Castletown Festival committee could no longer rely on the philanthropy clause as it had in previous years. The Constabulary advised the committee well in advance of the Festival that it should seek a licence for the evening part of the programme. The Constabulary was prepared to work with the organisers and support the granting of a licence, subject to reasonable conditions being put in place, based around the Event Safety Guide.

The committee refused to accept the advice and chose not to apply for a licence. Meetings were held in the weeks leading up to the Festival in an attempt to find a way forward, but the committee refused to change its approach. It was made clear that, if the event went ahead without a licence, members of the committee would run the risk of being reported to HM Attorney General for consideration of prosecution. This is not at all the same as telling them they would be prosecuted. The Constabulary does not prosecute anyone. All cases referred by the police are reviewed by a prosecutor, who considers Manx law, established policy and the guidance to prosecutors, issued by HM Crown Prosecution Service, before making a decision. A key consideration is that of public interest.

The committee had choices that could have allowed the Festival’s evening programme to go ahead. However, it chose not to pursue the matter through an application to the Licensing Court – the only way that would have allowed the correct legal position to be established.

The Constabulary was obliged to pass on the new legal advice from HM Attorney General’s Chambers in this matter and is disappointed that the committee chose to make drastic alterations to the evening programme, instead of taking a more pragmatic approach.

To reiterate: the issue here is less about the legal niceties of the Music and Dancing Act and more about the duties of all event organisers to place all aspects of public safety at the centre of the planning and running of an event. The Constabulary has not encountered any other organisation that shows a reluctance to embrace and promote safety in this way.
The Constabulary has made its position clear and wants to support a well-run, safe Castletown Festival in the future. It looks forward to continuing its discussions with the event organisers to achieve this aim.

[censorship]

Found the resources to excrete that didn't they.

An overly long statement blaming everyone else for a music-related event going wrong, issued after several days of silence? Do the police have the same PR people as the Hope and Glory Festival organisers?