ballaughbiker Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Quote .......I thought there is an agreement about double tax.... Oh there is. However most ordinary teacher pension recipients, despite the myths an here, are not likely to exceed a husband and wife tax annual tax allowance by that much. To benefit from the dual taxation agreement as I understand it, you actually have to be paying enough UK tax if 20% has been stopped here without any personal allowance. The issue here as Tibet has accurately illustrated is that your pension is marooned here for life and max rate Manx tax is due without any personal allowance once its recipient has gone back to the UK. That is not mirrored the other way around so as I understand it your pension would not be similarly affected as you are still entitled to a full UK personal allowance. I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Quote My genius solution to this is to pay Manx kids' university fees in return for them promising to work here on a reasonable but not exceptional wage for 5-10 years once qualified as a doctor, teacher, dentist, nurse, IT specialist or whatever 5-10 years??? Wow. I think airline pilots are only 'bonded' to their company for two. Also what happens if there is no job for them here yet they are in great demand across (in the M.Eng in Electrical Engineering graduate I have mentioned once or twice before ) Would they have to pay their fees back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Dearden Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Tibet said: Not true. As a non-resident, your pension would be subject to a 20% non-resident / higher rate of tax, with a £0 non-resident allowance. In other words, if you have an Isle of Man Government pension and you emigrate, you'll be charged 10% more tax, you won't be eligible for any allowance, and the country where you move to will likely tax your pension as well. I have a family member thinking of moving abroad and they would go from paying 10% tax to paying a whopping 40% tax on their pension once the other country had taxed them as well. Does anybody know how much the UK Government would tax it after the IOM Government has already deducted 20% if they were to move to the UK? Is that right? If there were IOM tax deducted, wouldn't the UK credit it against any UK tax due so that the end result would be the same ie UK levels of tax? BUT does that really happen. Isn't there an agreement between the UK and the IOM which removes this problem? If they go and work elsewhere - not UK - then there may be IOM tax but most civilised countries would credit any tax deducted against the local tax charge. I accept it can happen - I have seen occasions when an element of income suffers tax in two different jurisdictions but it is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkle Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: Oh there is.. I think. "I think" =I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibet Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I guess the IOM and UK have an arrangement. Maybe there is an arrangement with other countries but there certainly isn't such an arrangement with the country where my family member is emigrating. But as Ballaughbiker pointed out, even with the UK you're still stuck with the maximum rate of IOM tax if you're a non-resident (20%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 7 hours ago, Ham_N_Eggs said: Because of the pensions. If they did ever need to move to the UK the manx pension is non transferable. Likewise if a UK teacher moved to the Island they would lose their entitlement to all contributions they have made to the pension after 5 years. Also there is some quirk around the manx pgce being non transferable to the UK. So if they did way to leave they couldn't. But the issue isn't manx teachers leaving the problem is we don't have enough teachers and there is very little incentive for teachers to come and live here. Would you move here to face a higher cost of living / housing costs for the same pay and the chance of losing your pension? The reason they can't take it back is because our government will have already spent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Quote "I think" =I don't know. Only in your head twinkle. I am not a tax expert and therefore my understanding is only as a layman. What I wrote was my interpretation of what a paid tax professional told me on this very subject. Not quite the same as "I don't know" is it? Mind you, I might not have an effing clue or might have misunderstood..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Quote If there were IOM tax deducted, wouldn't the UK credit it against any UK tax due What if there was no (or minimal) UK tax due? Might be the case on a £20k Manx pension for a now UK resident couple with no other income. It is only an issue as the Manx tax authority take full rate tax with no allowance. If they didn't do that it wouldn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 I don't think it's been pointed out yet (apologies if it has) but one of the reasons for the crisis is that, as with nursing, they've failed to train and recruit Manx teachers for many years. The wider economic policy of attracting professional white collar workers to the Island to buy houses, boost the economy through increased spending and to increase the population, trumped the expectations of many young Manx people who rightfully expected to make a professional career on the Island and discovered instead a glass ceiling. The opportunity wasn't available to them unless they had connections who could open the door. Even those who trained on the Manx teaching certificate course at the College a few years ago found it didn't necessarily lead to employment. I think the course has since ceased. Now that it is increasingly difficult to recruit from the UK it just highlights the short-sightedness of recent decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Quote I have seen occasions when an element of income suffers tax in two different jurisdictions but it is rare. It might be rare but if its you.... What about a person with a Manx pension retiring in France? There is no dual taxation agreement as i understand it so wouldn't tax be payable twice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Quote The reason they can't take it back is because our government will have already spent it. More than once.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibet Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: The wider economic policy of attracting professional white collar workers to the Island to buy houses, boost the economy through increased spending and to increase the population, trumped the expectations of many young Manx people who rightfully expected to make a professional career on the Island and discovered instead a glass ceiling. The opportunity wasn't available to them unless they had connections who could open the door. Very true. I am Manx and wanted to become a teacher but they wouldn't fund the teacher training, so instead I've spent about ten years working in finance. To add to it, the people refusing to fund me are not even Manx, yet they withhold Manx taxpayer funds to a Manx person to be able to study a course to be able to teach in a Manx school, all while claiming there is a shortage of teachers. The truth is, they don't want Manx teachers here. They want Manx teachers to go to the UK. They want UK teachers to come here, to turn the island into part of the UK and keep Manx people from being self-dependent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibet Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 18 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: What if there was no (or minimal) UK tax due? Might be the case on a £20k Manx pension for a now UK resident couple with no other income. It is only an issue as the Manx tax authority take full rate tax with no allowance. If they didn't do that it wouldn't matter. But even if the UK Government don't tax you, you're still paying the IOM Government 20% higher rate of tax. Whereas for the most part you'd likely be paying 10% on the island, and I assume if a UK resident whose pension is derived from the UK Government would not be paying as high as 20% tax. I think you're still losing out by moving from the IOM to the UK, whereas vice versa doesn't appear to be a problem. So if there is an agreement with the UK, it doesn't strike me as a very fair agreement as far as Manx people are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 You'd only be paying 10% if resident here if you exceeded the Manx personal allowance Tibet. That is currently £25,000 if married (I think twinkle) and I'd wager most teachers have a pension that doesn't exceed that by much unless they were Head or Deputy Head. Quote I assume if a UK resident whose pension is derived from the UK Government would not be paying as high as 20% tax. You might be paying no tax in the UK if your pension was (as a couple with no other income) <£23,000 However after that it would be 20% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibet Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: You'd only be paying 10% if resident here if you exceeded the Manx personal allowance Tibet. after that it would be 20% True, but a non-resident personal allowance is £0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.