finlo Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 35 minutes ago, notwell said: Well if someone chooses to leave etc. Plus you had tax relief on those contributions. And in the case of many no doubt they're well pensioned civil servants who paid very little. Is this argument not about teachers who come here and their pension gets marooned (stolen) here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 How are they stolen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, notwell said: How are they stolen? Because they won't give them back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Are you saying they accrue no pension entitlement whilst here and won't benefit from any pension accrued here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Quote Well if someone chooses to leave etc. That's a bit dismissive even for you. There is a recruitment crisis so it's highly likely they give this problem a swerve by never coming here in the first place so we loose out. Fabulous.... In any case, those retiring now will have come here before this pension marooning came into force. In other words we moved the goalposts which I'm sure you would complain about too if you were affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, notwell said: Are you saying they accrue no pension entitlement whilst here and won't benefit from any pension accrued here? If they move here in 12 months time their pension pot follows maybe worth £200,000? A year later they decide it's not for them so they want to move on but their pension is trapped here is that fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 It is a ridiculous arrangement. It should be fluid if we are to attract and hold on to the essential people. I suppose medical staff are also affected. If IoM was a county of the UK there'd be no problem, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: That's a bit dismissive even for you. There is a recruitment crisis so it's highly likely they give this problem a swerve by never coming here in the first place so we loose out. Fabulous.... In any case, those retiring now will have come here before this pension marooning came into force. In other words we moved the goalposts which I'm sure you would complain about too if you were affected. So how can they be in a worse position then retiring now? If they retire now here and take a pension they'll get taxed here. If they now lived in the UK they'll get relief on what they paid (which is at a lower rate here anyway). So how are those retired now losing out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwell Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, finlo said: If they move here in 12 months time their pension pot follows maybe worth £200,000? A year later they decide it's not for them so they want to move on but their pension is trapped here is that fair? They're not transferring pots of money really. They are on final salary schemes. So it's entitlement surely? Accrued at whatever rate. Unless of course that 'value' buys some years here. If you are in the UK moving here then surely you only move your pot if the terms are better? Otherwise you leave it there. It shouldn't stop anyone from moving. You simply look at your current set up and freeze the entitlement. (If the UK terms are better) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, notwell said: They're not transferring pots of money really. They are on final salary schemes. So it's entitlement surely? Accrued at whatever rate. Unless of course that 'value' buys some years here. If you are in the UK moving here then surely you only move your pot if the terms are better? Otherwise you leave it there. It shouldn't stop anyone from moving. You simply look at your current set up and freeze the entitlement. (If the UK terms are better) . As it seems to be the main issue i'm not sure you can just beach it over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Expatriate said: Let me get this straight then, you're not saying that parts of UK cities and towns are 'festering shit holes full of deadbeats, criminals and feral youths', much like, say, parts of Douglas are festering shit holes etc etc, you're saying all UK cities and most UK towns are all, without exception, in their entireties, festering shit holes. (You're section on their alleged lower quality of life for the people who live there compared to the Isle of Man is redundant, given your view that they are all festering shit holes they must have a lower quality of life living as they do in festering shit holes full of criminals etc etc). Had you said that the Isle of Man is a fine place to live although not without it's own patches of shitholery, as are thousands of other places in the British Isles I could have agreed with you, but given the extraordinary stupidity of you characterising an entire country as you have, compared to your pleasant enough but little wind swept outcrop in the Irish Sea, I'll have to disagree. I wouldn't want to be associated with such a backward way of thinking. How the fuck you managed to spend forty three years living in a country and learn nothing about it other than its all a shithole says more about you than it does the UK. OK, so there are decent places in the UK. Of course there are, and lots of them. Stu's comment is broad brush and lacks nuance, BUT there is no "shit hole" in Douglas that comes close to even some of the more select "shit holes" in the UK for sheer degeneracy. That is a fact. Festering shit holes in the Isle of Man, if there actually are any worthy of the name, are sheer amateurs in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Thanks Woolley - I couldn't be arsed responding. But 'nuanced' and me in the same thought? Shame on you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Quote So how can they be in a worse position then retiring now? and You simply look at your current set up and freeze the entitlement. (If the UK terms are better) . I think there are three issues. 1) If they have paid most of their contributions there and come here for say the last 5-10 years intending to retire elsewhere then we tax their pension at full rate with no allowance and this can cause the pension to suffer tax twice. 2) If they leave the accrued entitlement in the UK and 'start again' here, the new terms are much worse 3) There is concern that Tynwald might move the goalposts even further to suit themselves now the pension no longer mirror images the UK equivalent. Whichever way you look at it, there will be a fair few who will not accept these issues and look elsewhere. We will then loose out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 13 hours ago, finlo said: If they move here in 12 months time their pension pot follows maybe worth £200,000? A year later they decide it's not for them so they want to move on but their pension is trapped here is that fair? Caveat emptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Agreed Andy but what about those who moved here before the goalposts were moved? They had no chance to beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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