P.K. Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 18 hours ago, twinkle said: BUT the drug being discussed here has never EVER killed anyone, yup zero deaths from cannabis,I wonder how many tramadol has killed?. You sure about that...? Mother psychotic when she killed eight children Raina Thaiday’s long-term cannabis use triggered schizophrenia so she believed she was saving her four sons, three daughters and a niece, psychiatrists say https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/may/04/mother-psychotic-when-she-killed-eight-children-queensland-court-rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, P.K. said: You sure about that...? Mother psychotic when she killed eight children Raina Thaiday’s long-term cannabis use triggered schizophrenia so she believed she was saving her four sons, three daughters and a niece, psychiatrists say https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/may/04/mother-psychotic-when-she-killed-eight-children-queensland-court-rules You’ve been told about bringing facts to any thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 It's when people start saying that no one has ever been killed due to cannabis. Or no one has ever assaulted anyone else when on cannabis. etc etc that does the cause no good. That said, there does need to be a serious debate on the matter, maybe a select committee that can take responses from the public. The Isle of Man can learn a lot from the House of Commons debate on cannabis : "That this House has considered an e-petition relating to making the production, sale and use of cannabis legal." Titled as it was, that was never going to succeed despite some of the excellent arguments put forward. Tory Justice Minister Mike Penning gave a thinly disguised arrogance to his dismissal for calls for the drug to be legalised - even for medicinal purposes. The Island could lead the way here (but our Government won't as it isn't capable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 5 hours ago, Neil Down said: You’ve been told about bringing facts to any thread... What is a fact is that Schizotypal, obsessional and psychotic personalities are vulnerable to, and their condition exacerbated by, many chemical triggers. Whether it be cannabis, alcohol, pharmaceutical compounds and the many other chemicals we are exposed to in the environment. It is apparent from that article itself that when she committed her crimes she hadn't been under the influence of cannabis. Her medical history as examined in the court proceedings also showed psychological problems she'd experienced from a younger age, including her abuse of other drugs, including quantities of alcohol and benzodiazepines, and she was uncooperative when it came to taking her prescribed medication, probably a powerful mind/mood controller which could also have played its part in this tragedy. There are many cases, past and present where institutional prescribing of many of the dubiously-tested and powerful psychotropic compounds given to people with mental illness have exacerbated rather than have the desired effect of the stabilisation of their underlying mental conditions. A study of the contraindications and side-effects listed with many of these mood-altering drugs, in many cases irresponsibly prescribed as a 'catch-all' for a plethora of conditions, shows that they can also be the catalyst for loss of control and judgment. SSRI's, prescribed for the treatment of anxiety and depression come to mind. Some people, especially younger persons, experience massive suicidal ideation (killing themselves and others in the process, the lawsuits are legion) and psychotic episodes from the compound meant to alleviate or control their mental maladies, in fact, making them worse and with tragic consequences. It is also a fact that out of the many millions of people who use cannabis, the vast majority do so without detrimental effect and go about their daily lives without complication. My own experience of cannabis, from the first joint, has always been a pleasant one and It has been the same for most of the long-term users I have met. There have also been many whose experience has not been so pleasant and as a consequence have never touched the stuff again. Because cannabis is unregulated and stronger strains are available, it is unsurprising that some unfortunates lose control and tragic consequences unfold. I can read many stories and provide links to tales of unscrupulous producers adulterating their product with other man-made chemicals: the psychoactive and dreadful 'Spice', cunningly made to look for all intents and purposes like hashish or sprayed onto dubious vegetable matter to look like weed, is doing the rounds in towns and cities right across Europe and controlled by unconscionable criminal gangs out to make their fortune who care little for the consequences of their trade. If proper regulation were introduced, a lot of their 'business' would simply die off, along with the inherent risks of adulterated substances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 34 minutes ago, quilp said: What is a fact is that Schizotypal, obsessional and psychotic personalities are vulnerable to, and their condition exacerbated by, many chemical triggers. Whether it be cannabis, alcohol, pharmaceutical compounds and the many other chemicals we are exposed to in the environment. It is apparent from that article itself that when she committed her crimes she hadn't been under the influence of cannabis. Her medical history as examined in the court proceedings also showed psychological problems she'd experienced from a younger age, including her abuse of other drugs, including quantities of alcohol and benzodiapines, and she was uncooperative when it came to taking her prescribed medication, probably a powerful mind/mood controller which could also have played its part in this tragedy. There are many cases, past and present where institutional prescribing of many of the dubiously-tested and powerful psychotropic compounds given to people with mental illness have exacerbated rather than have the desired effect of the stabilisation of their underlying mental conditions. A study of the contraindications and side-effects listed with many of these mood-altering drugs, in many cases irresponsibly prescribed as a 'catch-all' for a plethora of conditions, shows that they can also be the catalyst for loss of control and judgment. SSRI's, prescribed for the treatment of anxiety and depression come to mind. Some people, especially younger persons, experience massive suicidal ideation (killing themselves and others in the process, the lawsuits are legion) and psychotic episodes from the compound meant to alleviate or control their mental maladies, in fact, making them worse and with tragic consequences. It is also a fact that out of the many millions of people who use cannabis, the vast majority do so without detrimental effect and go about their daily lives without complication. My own experience of cannabis, from the first joint, has always been a pleasant one and It has been the same for most of the long-term users I have met. There have also been many whose experience has not been so pleasant and as a consequence have never touched the stuff again. Because cannabis is unregulated and stronger strains are available, it is unsurprising that some unfortunates lose control and tragic consequences unfold. I can read many stories and provide links to tales of unscrupulous producers adulterating their product with other man-made chemicals: the psychoactive and dreadful 'Spice', cunningly made to look for all intents and purposes like hashish or sprayed onto dubious vegetable matter to look like weed, is doing the rounds in towns and cities right across Europe and controlled by unconscionable criminal gangs out to make their fortune who care little for the consequences of their trade. If proper regulation were introduced, a lot of their 'business' would simply die off, along with the inherent risks of adulterated substances. I'm no expert on this but a large number of "experts" state that weed/cannabis is dangerous mainly because of the presence of THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) in it. The chemical connects with a receptor on nerve cells in your brain and creates an altered sense of pleasure. This may lead to certain issues. Instead of asking how many people have died from weed, you should conduct some research on serious health dangers of weed use, which can lead to death indirectly. Your heart starts beating 20-100% faster when you smoke marijuana. Once your heart rate increases, it stays like that for up to three hours. The use of marijuana can also change heart rhythms. It is due to this reason that weed users are 4.8% more likely to develop heart problems and have a heart attack during the first hour after smoking. People with heart problems are at a greater risk. Just like smoking tobacco, smoking weed is not good for your lungs. Its smoke can irritate your lungs and cause issues such as mucus, daily cough, chest colds, and risks of lung infections. It may also increase the risk for lung cancer. Certain cancer-causing chemicals in tobacco smoke are also present in marijuana smoke. Lung tissues of some regular weed smokers have shown signs of pre-cancerous changes. A number of studies have confirmed that there is a link between marijuana use and certain mental disorders. Smoking weed regularly and in high doses can cause a temporary psychotic reaction. This may lead to hallucinations with an impaired sense of perception. People with schizophrenia may experience their symptoms becoming worse after smoking weed. There are also connections between marijuana use and issues such as anxiety, depression, personality disturbances, and suicidal thoughts. The solution would be to legalise this and regulate the growth. Sell through licensed outlets for a trial period and take it from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 People who imbibe cannabis (smoking it being just one method of transport) aren't going to just go away and the perceived problems disappear with rigorous enforcing of the dubious legislation covering it. The failed 'war' on drugs of all variety proves this. Cannabis consumption needs to be looked at laterally and those who choose to partake, catered-for, as we're seeing in 'legal' states and countries around the globe. I might be biased in thinking this a sensible approach but the tax-take and benefits of a stable and safer cannabis economy has many benefits and backs up the need for a lateral approach to the subject. I seem to remember my heart rate and blood pressure increasing to unorthodox levels when hurtling around the course on Mad Sunday like I used to, and hang-gliding, even paint-balling! Agree entirely on the dangers of smoking cannabis being equitable to tobacco. I have a friend whose days used to be wracked by a painful and debilitating condition known as Fibromyalgia. It sometimes took him hours to feel able to go about his daily needs and live a somewhat normal existence. Unable to work, after years of medical interventions and much experimentation with the usual, 'here-try-this' therapy doled out by his disinterested GP, a daily 'dose' of one gram of cannabis in a milky coffee every morning, or sprinkled into his Golden Oats has enabled him to return to work and get through his day. This, in a man formerly rabidly against all drugs. It is people like him on which the efficacy of cannabis and its theraputic use should be focused and go from there with recreational use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Like dog poo, potholes and promenades, good ol' cannabis is a Manx Forums staple. Although to be fair it is a changing topic of debate. Dr Allinson has shown the way with his private members Abortion Bill. Someone needs to bring the subject of medical use cannabis to the floor of Tynwald. So...who's it going to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Ashford's broaching the subject, Malarkey too, last year but whether it be serious debate or token right-on gesture, is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, gettafa said: Like dog poo, potholes and promenades, good ol' cannabis is a Manx Forums staple. Although to be fair it is a changing topic of debate. Lol, indeed it does. And mostly ends up in a verbal merry-go-round with the same members saying the same thing in different ways from both sides of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 53 minutes ago, quilp said: Ashford's broaching the subject, Malarkey too, last year but whether it be serious debate or token right-on gesture, is anyone's guess. It's probably popularism. That's democracy for you. But I would still prefer someone leading the debate who had the intelligence and wherewithall to know exactly what they were talking about. And it needs a fair amount of passion and diplomacy to be able to persuade other members to come with you. It ain't gonna happen any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 8 hours ago, P.K. said: You sure about that...? Mother psychotic when she killed eight children Raina Thaiday’s long-term cannabis use triggered schizophrenia so she believed she was saving her four sons, three daughters and a niece, psychiatrists say https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/may/04/mother-psychotic-when-she-killed-eight-children-queensland-court-rules Haha 1 twinkle reacted to this twinkle reacted to this Quote Edit Have to say twinkle. I don't view the deaths of eight children anything to laugh about.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 4 hours ago, gettafa said: It's probably popularism. That's democracy for you. But I would still prefer someone leading the debate who had the intelligence and wherewithall to know exactly what they were talking about. And it needs a fair amount of passion and diplomacy to be able to persuade other members to come with you. It ain't gonna happen any time soon. Although this guy (as far as his views on cannabis are concerned) sounds promising (which will probably be his downfall): Footnote: The ol' weed is not my cup of tea, but it's not about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevster Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 21 minutes ago, gettafa said: Although this guy (as far as his views on cannabis are concerned) sounds promising (which will probably be his downfall): Footnote: The ol' weed is not my cup of tea, but it's not about me. I seem to remember his son getting done on a drugs charge a few years back and I’ve worked with him in the past and he’s a complete knob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yootalkin2me Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 https://youtu.be/5tqFbceeWUk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gettafa Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 2 hours ago, kevster said: I seem to remember his son getting done on a drugs charge a few years back and I’ve worked with him in the past and he’s a complete knob. I don't know him from Adam, but if you had to choose 5 of those fifteen, he has to be in the running. Entertainment value if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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