Lagman Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Just now, finlo said: Why would we even dream of increasing the population? Only those in the machine see it as a way of feeding said machine! It was around 60,000 or something when I was growing up, never seemed to be underpopulated, we had pretty much everything we needed with some genuine skilled workers etc brought in like doctors etc. and some seasonal workers I think It worked pretty well. It was around the 30,000 mark for most of our history before that over the centuries. I think it's around 85,000 now going by the amount of cars on the road it doesn't seem to be rapidly depopulating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_N_Eggs Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, finlo said: Why would we even dream of increasing the population? Only those in the machine see it as a way of feeding said machine! There's a new harbour to pay for and the Sloc will need resurfacing at some point after 2021. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 An increase in population will only result in bigger government requiring another increase in population ad infinitum. The real solution is to hit the reset button and right size the government to the population not the other was around! ( as I've said numerous times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, finlo said: Why would we even dream of increasing the population? Only those in the machine see it as a way of feeding said machine! 21 minutes ago, Lagman said: It was around 60,000 or something when I was growing up, never seemed to be underpopulated, we had pretty much everything we needed with some genuine skilled workers etc brought in like doctors etc. and some seasonal workers I think It worked pretty well I can think of two good answers and there will obviously be many others: 1. If you want decent modern facilities then you need a population large enough to support decent modern facilities. Healthcare being an obvious example. And the smaller the population the more expensive it is, in general, to provide services. Contrary to simplistic populist opinion, small govt is typically an expensive luxury. Economies of scale, obviously. 2. If you want to live in a modern economy, with sustainable modern jobs and opportunities, then you need sectors large enough to create their own momentum and gravity. From which new ideas also emerge. It didn't work well when I was growing up here. Tourism was over, there was no money left and most people who wanted a career left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagman Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 35 minutes ago, pongo said: I can think of two good answers and there will obviously be many others: 1. If you want decent modern facilities then you need a population large enough to support decent modern facilities. Healthcare being an obvious example. And the smaller the population the more expensive it is, in general, to provide services. Contrary to simplistic populist opinion, small govt is typically an expensive luxury. Economies of scale, obviously. 2. If you want to live in a modern economy, with sustainable modern jobs and opportunities, then you need sectors large enough to create their own momentum and gravity. From which new ideas also emerge. It didn't work well when I was growing up here. Tourism was over, there was no money left and most people who wanted a career left. 1 - I see little in the way of "decent modern facilities" in the last 20 - 30 years of growing the population by thousands (apart from the Villa, which was an update of something that already existed and the NSC) - all I've seen are the loss of facilities with the growing population. - White City - houses, the Crescent - Apartments, Bushy's - (a dive but a tourist draw) - offices, Summerland - a carpark? - most hotels - apartments or old people homes and on and on it goes. Forgive me if I don't believe that upping the population will result in more facilities. 2 - It can never be a city no matter what we do, haven't seen a whole lot of "new ideas" emerge over the last 20 - 30 years apart from the low tax idea (films, banking, insurance, ship and aircraft registery etc). and online gambling. "Gravity"? I saw less of our own people leave then than now since we've been growing the population for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 1 hour ago, the stinking enigma said: It's about time we freed that akinmurele chap and welcomed him home with open arms. That could be difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Shake me up Judy said: That could be difficult. Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagman Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Lagman said: Contrary to simplistic populist opinion, small govt is typically an expensive luxury. I'm not seeing how neverending bigger and bigger (and often useless) government is affordable or appropriate for a place and population this size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, Lagman said: I'm not seeing how neverending bigger and bigger (and often useless) government is affordable or appropriate for a place and population this size. Government worker syndrome (probably). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagman Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, MrPB said: Jersey has a population of about 110,000 and it has less public sector workers than we have and a public sector pension scheme which is pretty much paid up. It does make you wonder how we got it so wrong while at the same time pointing fingers at Jersey for allegedly not being as successful as we were! And soon our bank apparently, didn't they have some sort of housing rights.residence laws that gave their people more protection too? - as opposed to our resident act that we never used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 38 years ago Tynwald was expressing concern that by 2001 the local population could hit 90,000 without the infrastructure to support it (source, Manx Museum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagman Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, MrPB said: The IOM Bank has already moved according to the letter I got the other week. Yes they like to look after locals down there I believe. They really shouldn't be allowed to keep using that name whilst operating from another jurisdiction, their excuse will be being the Royal bank of SCOTLAND based there, but it's not quite the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagman Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: 38 years ago Tynwald was expressing concern that by 2001 the local population could hit 90,000 without the infrastructure to support it (source, Manx Museum) I believe we might have gone past that mark a few years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emesde Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 "And now we know it is. 4th oldest population, apparently." is this real or fake news ?? Over the last few years we have appeared at around number 11 or 12 in the world list ....how can we suddenly have jumped to no 4 unless a very high percentage of young people have suddenly left the Island, in which case there is an enormous problem to have suddenly caused this sort of result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagman Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, MrPB said: The IOM Bank has already moved according to the letter I got the other week. Yes they like to look after locals down there I believe. Could we grow Conister with expanded services to replace it, probably be more money for them so worth it in theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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